The final moment that heart wrenching moment between Sam and Dean. Can we re-wind and toss this in the air. Last night after re-watching a thought struck me. My thought reverted back to the start of the trials when Sam said to Dean this is a suicide mission. It wasn’t until Dean came bolting through the chapel doors to stop Sam proceeding with the last section of the third trial, that the words came back into my mind.
It wasn’t until Dean said ‘if you finish the trials you will die’ and Sam replied – “SO” Did Sam find out before Dean that he was actually going to die. Did he research the trial after all. Or examine information that Metatron talked to him about. Why was Sam so nonchalant as though he couldn’t care less either way. It was just how he came out with “SO”. Was this Sam’s goodbye speech to Dean? It was the way the whole dramatic performance played out, as though Sam was committing suicide and opening up to his brother and getting those inner demons off his chest once and for all. Was he preparing himself for death? Was Dean trying to talk his brother down off that ledge, with the replies that Sam so wanted to hear.
It was torture as the viewer trying to watch over this agonizing moment. Did Sam really want to end his life that badly that he thought Dean would be better if he wasn’t around. Was he content in dying that it wasn’t until Dean’s words hit him with a punch that he thought twice about it, and decided to back down. The guilt that Sam took on board was so hard for him to really bare and cope with. So had he contemplated suicide and gathered those thoughts as a final goodbye? 😦 😦 😦
Also Naomi’s speech about Sam was always the Sacrifice to a bewildered Dean, left me numb. Was this Gods plan all along, that he wanted to see Sam dead. Had he prepared those trials with this in mind. And Sam was right it was a ‘suicide mission’. Why did God want that person dead, what was in it for him?
Bella as ever really wants to know what her little angels think. Was Sam really thinking about ending it all, and was coming to terms with his guilt in a huge magnified way. Type away folks if your lurking too don’t be afraid to join in. We promise we are so friendly around here 😉
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I don’t think it was a suicide mission at all. I think what triggered it was the “chaperone line.” If I were really invested in the characters as the actor, I would’ve brought back the “so” with the “chaperone line” in my head. Dean was treating Sam as the “kid who needed help doing everything, who needs protection.” The minute that Dean patches that up, Sam feels better. FORGIVENESS, as I’ve said in a previous comment on the perception blog, became the theme to me. The brothers needed repairing since the beginning of season 7 so that notion of forgiveness stuck in between them as they inched forward to it at the end of season 8. Of course, that doesn’t mean the problems are solved and they won’t have another bad guy(s) to take down, but it means that the brothers can be a solid team again. Hopefully.
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I don’t think it was a suicide mission at all. I think what triggered it was the “chaperon line.” If I were really invested in the characters as the actor, I would’ve brought back the “so” with the “chaperon line” in my head. Dean was treating Sam as the “kid who needed help doing everything, who needs protection.” The minute that Dean patches that up, Sam feels better. FORGIVENESS, as I’ve said in a previous comment on the perception blog, became the theme to me. The brothers needed repairing since the beginning of season 7 so that notion of forgiveness stuck in between them as they inched forward to it at the end of season 8. Of course, that doesn’t mean the problems are solved and they won’t have another bad guy(s) to take down, but it means that the brothers can be a solid team again. Hopefully.
Yeap the protection word did come into my head must admit but It didn’t fully twig with the chaperon word. The suicide Mission line isn’t connected that was a wild shot of mine 😉 So as you say So and Chaperon are the connected words he’s associating with. Sam still thinks he’s a kid in Dean’s eyes, and feels he doesn’t need protecting. Finally as promised I think we will see the brothers united and at least balanced with each other, more so than they’ve ever been before. They’ve done the hard graft now lets see what’s in store. Hopefully not so much angst please 🙂
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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I think his “So?” was a combination of:
1) If it’s required to complete The Trials then he felt like he had to do it.
2) The Trials were completely exhausting him mentally and physically and I think he was just too exhausted to fight death if that would be the final outcome. (Kind of reminds me of “The Born Again Identity” where Sam tells Dean to not try to save him because he can’t be saved. He had accepted that he would die because he was so exhausted from his lack of sleep and constantly hearing and seeing Lucifer).
3) The Most Important: I think the “So?” to Sam meant that if dying would Seal the doors of Hell forever… then it was a sacrifice worth making and he would finally redeem himself to Dean.
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I think his “So?” was a combination of:
1) If it’s required to complete The Trials then he felt like he had to do it.
Yes, 100% get this.
2) The Trials were completely exhausting him mentally and physically and I think he was just too exhausted to fight death if that would be the final outcome. (Kind of reminds me of “The Born Again Identity” where Sam tells Dean to not try to save him because he can’t be saved. He had accepted that he would die because he was so exhausted from his lack of sleep and constantly hearing and seeing Lucifer).
We were fully content with this fact that the trials were exhausting him. Now you said that episode it reminds me of this too. That he was almost at deaths door any way so either way what did he have to loose.
3) The Most Important: I think the “So?” to Sam meant that if dying would Seal the doors of Hell forever… then it was a sacrifice worth making and he would finally redeem himself to Dean.
So this goes back to that original question Sam new that he was the sacrifice all along?
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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“3) The Most Important: I think the “So?” to Sam meant that if dying would Seal the doors of Hell forever… then it was a sacrifice worth making and he would finally redeem himself to Dean.
So this goes back to that original question Sam new that he was the sacrifice all along?”
No- he said Dean was facing the trials like a suicicide mission but HE would do them and lead Dean to the light at the end of the tunnel.So no he didnt know that at all.
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No- he said Dean was facing the trials like a suicide mission but HE would do them and lead Dean to the light at the end of the tunnel.So no he didn’t know that at all.
I’m thinking about two different things here again, I do this often you no 😉
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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I agree Barb. I don’t think either knew the extent of it. This, I think his “so?” came from other reasons not because he knew that all along. It came from exhaustion, just wanting to finish the trials, and making Dean proud if his death would truly close the gates.
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I agree Barb. I don’t think either knew the extent of it. This, I think his “so?” came from other reasons not because he knew that all along. It came from exhaustion, just wanting to finish the trials, and making Dean proud if his death would truly close the gates.
Probably me just getting my wires crossed 😉
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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I think Sam knew the risks and even the suicidal possibility from the git go when Kevin explains the tablet the first time to them. Over the season, Sam has appeared OOC for some of the viewers, perhaps because the character was building up to the you would be better off without me speech. I think Sam has been ruminating all season long about his disappointing Dean, from the moment Dean says to him You did look for me? and he realizes that once again he disappointed Dean.This all starts with episode one of this season. Again, the visit to Amelia he decides she is better off without him as well. Again, Sam seeing himself as damaged goods, a freak, who has been managing his freakdom, but at least he can complete the trials and not disappoint Dean again and then Dean would be free and not have to hunt demons. His trip down memory lane in Clip Show reveals how he must have been going through his whole life and feeling as though he disappointed Dean so much. The Sir Gallahad was not an arbitrary choice. Gallahad chooses instant death as a reward so he can go to heaven immediately if I remember the tale. Of course, we cannot be sure that the stuff that glows inside Sam is not making these memories and self image distorted for Sam. But yes, Dean talks him off the ledge. “So?” =no hope-let me die I do not matter or if I do it is only to mess you up of a truly depressed/angry at least let me do one thing right man. I think it is the continuation of the character’s psyche being broken when he is truly alone at the finale of season7 which is the continuation of the wall coming down. Sometimes a person has to hit bottom before they can rebuild and Dean pulled him off that ledge, but he still seems physically ill. We saw Dean’s poor opinion of himself when he thinks he is going to take on the trials, again trying to save Sam b/c he knows Sam is worth it and thinks he himself is not. Carver told us it was about Perception and then he slammed us with so much mis-perception all season, we did not see this all coming- it was there the whole time- rewatch the Sam/Dea/tablet episodes this season. The writing gives hints.So much to play with in Season 9.
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I think Sam knew the risks and even the suicidal possibility from the git go when Kevin explains the tablet the first time to them. Over the season, Sam has appeared OOC for some of the viewers, perhaps because the character was building up to the you would be better off without me speech. I think Sam has been ruminating all season long about his disappointing Dean, from the moment Dean says to him You did look for me? and he realizes that once again he disappointed Dean.
So that Suicide Mission thought was the start of the process in his mind I guess? I was right, I’ve been tossing this thought in my head for days. But couldn’t figure out why? But haven’t these feeling steamed back longer, I’m thinking way back season 3 not saving Dean from Hell. This must have festered in him for years, to come out with this thought that he wasn’t worthy. But with this continuing thought, and this coming to ahead, has this wrapped up why he didn’t look for Dean? Had he thought his brother imploded into thin air, and blocking this out of his mind must have tortured him deep down even more. I can’t still at this point get my head around why he didn’t look. If he felt this bad and such a disappointment to Dean why didn’t he at least try. I can’t believe he would have give up so quickly and easily. This is what I can’t match up in my head with the suicide speech …
This all starts with episode one of this season. Again, the visit to Amelia he decides she is better off without him as well. Again, Sam seeing himself as damaged goods, a freak, who has been managing his freakdom, but at least he can complete the trials and not disappoint Dean again and then Dean would be free and not have to hunt demons. His trip down memory lane in Clip Show reveals how he must have been going through his whole life and feeling as though he disappointed Dean so much. The Sir Galahad was not an arbitrary choice. Galahad chooses instant death as a reward so he can go to heaven immediately if I remember the tale. Of course, we cannot be sure that the stuff that glows inside Sam is not making these memories and self image distorted for Sam. But yes, Dean talks him off the ledge. “So?” =no hope-let me die I do not matter or if I do it is only to mess you up of a truly depressed/angry at least let me do one thing right man.
Yeap, I can relate to his thoughts here … So could the illness of the trials be distorting his views? I am understanding the So’ = NO now. So at least this has stuck in my head. 😉 So when that crunch came, what decided Sam to back down. What was that ultimate thought in his mind that he had hope and could see a way forward? Was it Dean’s I’m begging you?
I think it is the continuation of the character’s psyche being broken when he is truly alone at the finale of season 7 which is the continuation of the wall coming down. Sometimes a person has to hit bottom before they can rebuild and Dean pulled him off that ledge, but he still seems physically ill. We saw Dean’s poor opinion of himself when he thinks he is going to take on the trials, again trying to save Sam b/c he knows Sam is worth it and thinks he himself is not. Carver told us it was about Perception and then he slammed us with so much mis-perception all season, we did not see this all coming- it was there the whole time- re-watch the Sam/Dean/tablet episodes this season. The writing gives hints.So much to play with in Season 9.
So Sam has been suffering from metal problems the forum was right. So did he have that mini break down they were on about? How does this boy keep it so together when he’s bricking it on the inside. So really both boys are in the same position that they both feel worthless. They do have something in common that they are both struggling to come to terms with. I’m having trouble getting my head around what is perception and what isn’t and that’s driving me mad. At least I am on the right lines with this thought 😉
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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I think both of you are correct in this regard. Sam is the kind of person who has to be pushed all the way to the edge before he admits any kind of weakness. Sam’s had problems with his self worth since finding out about his demon blood. Its always bothered him but because he wants to appear as big and strong as his brother he has developed the habit of playing down any form of weakness. Again not wanting to disappoint Dean.
If you’ll go back to episode one, if possible, and take a close look at his face when Dean asks if he looked for him. That time and this time are the only times we see Sam defend what he did in any way. Just watch his face and really listen to what he’s saying and you will have your answer.
Carver himself said, at the beginning of the season that it all all begins and ends with the brothers. They are the foundation of everything this season. He then went on to distract us with tablets and prophets and trials. The trials were never the point of the season and there wont be a big bad I suspect. until season ten if so. The point of this season was to repair the brothers relationship and put them in a better position from a relationship standpoint to withstand the things he’ll be throwing at them in season nine.
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I think people keep forgetting and not trusting Carver. He studied under Kripke guys. Just trust the man . Itll work out.
You’re right that he is a slow burner. He’s making and omelet but so far all hes done is break a couple of eggs. You guys should just lay down the worries and trust that next season is when he will really start cooking.
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“Carver himself said, at the beginning of the season that it all all begins and ends with the brothers. They are the foundation of everything this season.”
I can definitely see that. I think we get caught up quickly in what WE want to see and what WE want to have explained to us. However, we need to allow the show-runners to tell their stories. We need to have more patience and faith in the show-runners because at the end of the day,.. it’s truly out of our hands.
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Darn it……forgot AGAIN
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Darn it……forgot AGAIN
No worries 😉
Love Aunty B xxxx
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If they KNEW it was a suicide mission why did they even start? I think Sam originally was saying that Dean was approaching it like a suicide mission but that Sam wasnt going to. I think at the moment he said so he realized Dean was right all along and that if Deanw as willing to die to do the trials he would too. JMHO
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If they KNEW it was a suicide mission why did they even start? I think Sam originally was saying that Dean was approaching it like a suicide mission but that Sam wasn’t going to. I think at the moment he said so he realized Dean was right all along and that if Dean was willing to die to do the trials he would too. JMHO
But if this is the case, what did he really mean by the word ‘SO’ Dean begged him not to go through with it, it was like he couldn’t care less as if he wasn’t in the least bothered if he died 😦 I don’t understand why he said ‘SO’ it took me by surprise.
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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I don’t understand why he said ‘SO’
I thinj he was responding as he thought Dean would in his position
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I don’t understand why he said ‘SO’
I think he was responding as he thought Dean would in his position
Barb see debbab’s post she explains what the “so” means and what its all about ..
Thanks for the comment,
Love Aunty B xxxxx
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