Sam’s words to Dean in Torn and Frayed.

Was Sam right laying all the blame at Dean?
Was Sam right laying all the blame at Dean?

Dean: What did you expect

Sam: Long drive?

Dean: Well, I wouldn’t have had to make it if you hadn’t have hung up on me

Sam: Well I heard all I needed to hear

Dean: No, you heard what you wanted to hear, I told you Benny wasn’t killing hell, I watched him in the fang banger that was.

Sam: How about Martin, how did he end that?

Dean: Stupid, just like I said it would, crazy son of a bitch didn’t give Benny a choice it was self defense.

Sam: Seriously Dean, that’s the story your going with, that the Vampire was the real victim here,

Dean: Hey, like it or not, that was the truth okay. There was a time when that actually meant something.

Sam: Yeah, yeah no kidding

Dean: What does that mean?

Sam: You think this is just about Benny?

Dean: What the hell are you talking about

Sam: What the hell do you think I’m talking about

Dean: Amelia. Come on man, I sent you that text cause I needed you to, to to

Sam: You needed me to what, to tear ass to Texas! To be afraid of what happened to Jessica, might happen that everyone we care about, might have happened to her

Dean: You were going to kill Benny, what was I supposed to do?

Sam: Is that what we are you save a Vampire by making me believe that the woman I love might be dead.

Dean: What do you want to hear Sam? That I was wrong. Fine I was wrong. Okay

Sam: Huh,

Dean:If you’d of heard me out, if you’d of trusted me, all of this could have been avoided

Sam: You didn’t want me to trust you, you wanted me to Benny and I can’t do that

Dean: Great, okay then what the hell do we do now,

Sam: That depends, that depends on you, on whether or not your done with him.

Dean: I’m gonna say I don’t no. Glad I made the drive.

Dean walks out and Sam pulls his usual face

Sam pulls his usual grumpy face whilst
Dean marches out the door problem unsolved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hucu_DTTUBs

Now this scene has baffled and flummoxed me for ages. Was Dean wrong in apologizing about  Benny. Was Sam in the right pulling Dean up about the text message. Or was Sam behaving a right as Americans say ‘douche’ we say prat. Or was he right in being aggressive over Benny, and Amelia. Was the Vamp the real victim in all this charade was Benny the real crux of this tense moment. Could there have been another way to get Sam out of the way, with out involving Amelia, was it a cruel trick? As Dean said, all of this could have been avoided.

These little scenes I am pulling my hair out over this year, sometimes I think Sam is so OOC, that I don’t no him any more. Or is this the old Sam rebelling once again, is he in the right for charging at Dean with the evidence he’d got up his sleeve. Why was Sam so argumentative about a man he’d never even met until that day. Why of course did Sam trust an unstable man like Martin in the first place, which still baffles me. We all knew it wouldn’t end well, and his head ended up on the chopping block. Did Martin give Benny a choice, as Dean raised it was self defense?

So how do my colleagues here feel this scene went. Are we happy with Sam’s outburst. Did he handle it well, was he right to jump of the handle at Dean. Was Dean right in apologizing to Sam, when Sam originally hired Martin. I would love you all to help me out on this one, and see where we end up this time. Keep your thoughts coming, as you know Bella loves to hear from you all.

 

 

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35 Comments

  1. I don’t know if anyone else noticed this but there is classic rock at the opening of the episode Torn and Frayed. The episode that marks the beginning of the seasons turnaround and the reassertion of the brothers relationship. I think it was the first episode of the season that everyone really liked, mostly because of how it ended. The brothers made a decision to stick together and a lot of people felt really positive about this one. It’s also the only episode in the middle of the season that has a classic rock opening credit. One is done for the premiere of the season and usually at the last episode. Very few episodes in the middle of the season have a rock song opener. The episodes in between the premiere and the finale usually just have the logo and a sound effect. Torn and Frayed broke that tradition and I wonder if that means anything.
    Ikeke that is a good observation, and recalled the opening music for season 8 Man in the wilderness. I thought it was beautiful and thought provoking and gelled with the scene perfectly. It really suited Dean’s home coming. 😉 It could well mean something, about the boys personalities, that they are struggling to get along, and the relationship is torn and frayed … Just a thought.

    Thank you for the comments,
    Love Aunty B xxxx

    Like

  2. Well said, Scarlet. However this is sometimes easier said than done. Especially with a years long investment in the characters and over all story arc. I remember watching Star Trek Voyager and Enterprise out of pure loyalty. I found both of the show to be saccharin, uninteresting, and boring. There were exceptions to this rule, however. As my friend and I waded through the wasteland there, were moments of clarity where a good story was told or a actor had especially good material. The difference is that, historically, ST is not an mythology driven show. Every episode, for the most part is MOTW.
    I agree, I loved Next Generation with a passion and watch voyager out of loyalty too. But just didn’t warm to the character. It was so dull that’s the only way I could describe it. Even years later I re-watched and thought the same thing. Some shows have it and others clearly don’t.

    The same can be said of Supernatural. It’s hard to jump ship when you have so much invested in characters and the outcome. A person can wade through a lot garbage waiting for the golden nugget, so to speak. Not only that, but don’t you know it is our right to complain all along the way, because Sam and Dean are ours, and when they don’t ‘do what we want them to do’, we can post away our dissatisfaction simply because of how we feel about them.
    I so agree again. Season 8 has felt like the golden nugget for so many. But we just cannot walk away. I could not desert these darling boys. I love your expression they are ours!! That’s why I love the power of forums and in my day we never had this opportunity, it would be lovely to think the writers and co do take notice of us all when we don’t like something, like AMELIA!!!

    Thank you for the comments,
    Love Aunty B xxxx

    Like

    1. Oh I felt the same way about the two Treks. I watched out of loyalty. I began to actively hate Enterprise. Strong emotions can only be produced by shows you care about. The worse feeling is indifference. I felt that for Voyager. But with Voyager I came back and watched later and cared a lot more. The same with the X Files. After about season six I just lost interest. Its a lot easier to drop a MOTW show. Shows like X Files hold onto you longer it seems but then I never invested in that shows mythology either, so that may have played a part. I understand being in the habit of watching a show though and having trouble giving it up. And man, those guys are just pretty!

      As I’ve gotten older I feel more pressed for time and have no patience to sit through anything bad just to finish it because it’s a habit. Not books, shows or films.I think I ‘m probably one of three people on earth who carefully parses or weeds out her entertainments.

      No I just meant that people who can no longer identify with the show can complain all they want but theyre never going to convince the ones who still relate to the show because its entirely subjective and deeply personal. And this doesn’t apply to you but there are people who go on fan sites to do nothing but trash the show. Now sometimes they have legitimate complaints about the plot or writing or whatever but if I notice the same name keeps popping up with the same complaints about their dissatisfaction, I’m going to ignore them.I’m going to wonder about them certainly.

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      1. And hey I actively hate Laurell K Hamilton but still go on forums to regularly trash that author because it’s fun and she’s such a d ** k.

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        1. “I actively hate Laurel K Hamilton ”
          I actually like her trashy books lol

          Never heard of her. I am starting to write my own novel this summer. See how it goes. I have a strong idea. And am making progress with notes. Some on the forum said I should write some fan-fiction but not so sure.

          Thank you for the comments,
          Love Aunty B xxxx

          Like

      2. I used to faithfully and obsessively watch True Blood but after 2 seasons they changed it from a love story with vampires to a monster story with sex…I think if things stay that way this will be my last season. I LOVED Stephen Moyer in it but they’ve taken his character to a place I don’t enjoy at all. I LOVED Moonlight but it only had one season but I re-watch it often. I loved X files for the first few years and then I wasn’t as interested…same for LOST it got too intricate and if I missed one epi it was hard to get back into the flow of the story.
        I was huge on True Blood, and Stephen being an English actor you no 😉 but I lost out on channel 5 schedual. I only saw up to where Sookie became a fairy. S3/4 so I think I’ve missed two seasons now. The one I really, really miss is heroes. And The Secret Circle. I was just getting into that one and they axed it. I never got into the X-Files but my brother adored it, he was a huge fan, but doesn’t like SPN, he says its weak in comparison. Each to their own. Again I get mixed up with Moonlighting and Moonlight? are these different shows entirely? I didn’t get LOST one bit, too high maintenance for me, too many characters and plots. I love Beauty and the Beast now, and my guilty pleasure is Revolution, have to follow Eric. They killed my favorite off last week and I was so mad 😦

        Thank you for the comments,
        Love Aunty B xxxx

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  3. @supernaturalscarlet : I hear what you’re trying to say and I get it. You no longer re ognize asps ts of yourself in these characters and as a result find it hard to understand the decisions they’re making. When that happens you have a couple of choices. When you cant relate to any of the characters anymore than it’s time to drop the show. It no longer fulfilled your needs and there’s no point in having an attachment to a show that your life has moved away from. There have been plenty of shows I loved at first but walked away from be suss I no longer cared about the characters or could no longer relate to them. One example is Smallville. I loved it the first couple of seasons butxafter about the third season I had to move on. The characters just seemed whinnying and irritating to me after a while. So I walked.

    Everyone watches a show through the lens of their own life and experiences and if yours have evolved to the point where you can’t relate to these characters anymore its not the writers fault or the characters fault or even your fault. It’s life’s fault. Best not to cling to it if it aintworking for you and who knows you may approach the show in a couple of years and have a completely different view of the things that are frustrating you now.

    Or you can try to understand that since everyone sees the show through their own life and we are different the rest of us aren’t going to see it the way you do and may be frustrated with you for not seeing it our way. Were not mad at you but honestly puzzled that you cant see what we see. But that’s entirely natural. That’s the way its supposed to be. We cant talk you into liking the show or characters. Whether or not you you stick in there and keep trying to understand and relate to the show or decide to leave for awhile is completely up to you.

    That said though,I hope you stick around.It can be very informative as to how other people view the show even if you cant relate plus there’s just the adventure of the show and hey! Sam and Dean are real pretty.

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    1. .Also need to point out that characters never do what YOU want them to do. They do what the writers need for them to do to tell an overall story. There’s no doubt that the writers have a goal in mind for these characters and that’s the direction they’re headed. When you began to dislike or disagree with the direction it’s going in it’s time to leap out of the moving vehicle and save yourself. As I said before there have been more than a few stories I had to abandon.

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      1. Oh…. I think you’ve misunderstood me Ikeke. I’m not sure what I said yesterday to make you think I’m upset w/ the show & its direction or didn’t understand where the characters are coming from anymore… actually, I thought I was explaining how I saw it. Sorry if I came off sounding like I was fed up; I was just explaining my frustration of this particular scene and some related ones. I actually didn’t think Sam & Dean were OOC this season, either, but some surprises did happen and the show chose to leave some things ambiguous.

        I actually love the show, love the characters, and loved season 8. LOL. I think every good show should make you feel the full range of emotion – including frustration at times! 😛

        “Also need to point out that characters never do what YOU want them to do”

        Well I should hope not all the time! Nice to be surprised. Although sometimes they do… and I’m proud of ’em. 😉

        Can’t wait to see where the writers take us next.

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        1. Oh see I mispercieved. My bad! Sorry. Also I was on a roll because Id just read Bardicvoice’s most recent article on the show.

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        2. “Also need to point out that characters never do what YOU want them to do”
          Scarlet I can so relate to this too. I could slap the writers so many times as they don’t send the boys were I would like them to go. Its so stressing to watch them argue and you as the viewer can’t do anything about it, but just watch it pan out in the opposite direction.

          Although sometimes they do… and I’m proud of ‘em
          Me to, especially the long hours they put in, I am bushed after an eight hour day, and they double sometimes triple that. 😦

          Thank you for the comments,
          Love Aunty B xxxx

          Like

  4. Well, it looks like I picked the right discussion to jump in on! Like several others have expressed here, I saw nothing OOC about Sam this season. I actually watched the Season 1 Pilot episode and then S8’s Sacrifice, and in both shows I saw the same reluctant hero who desperately wanted to believe he could have a life outside of hunting, but was unwilling to walk away and leave his brother to face the fight alone. But unlike S1, where he pretended to be “alright” to gain Dean’s approval, he finally confesses how unworthy he’s always felt of Dean’s respect. He’s older and a little more war-weary, but as far as I can see, he’s the same guy he’s always been. As for the exchange in Torn and Frayed, we’ve seen Sam storm off in a huff many times before- Scarecrow, When the Levee Breaks, Slash Fiction; he gets pissed, he walks away, he cools off, and he turns back to his brother. Nothing unexpected or OOC there. But for me, it was a nice surprise to see Dean go after Sam to try to smooth things over. His apology made perfect sense to me. Dean will do what he thinks needs to be done and will stand by his actions, but he’s spent he whole life trying to protect Sam; so I believe he will always regret hurting his little brother.
    Welcome Louise, cool to see a new face. I do see similarities in both characters from season 1 on wards. I’m probably reading too much into this. I guess like the old saying goes you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the time. Its true he has got pissed and narky so nothing is new there. But just felt like there was a massive build up, more arguments than normal. Those first 9 episodes of the season didn’t feel like Sam and Dean, but when the finale kicked in, it sunk in. It does do you good to share thoughts with others. Its definitely the whole elder brother scenario going on. Guess its time to move on and think of something fresh.

    Thank you for the comments, and joining group
    Love Aunty B xxxx

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    1. Yes I bated those first nine episodes because of the fighting but didn’t see it as OOC. I didn’t understand the anger and snarkiness either but just trusted it would be explained to me later. Unlike everyone else I never attached any significance to Sam not looking for Dean. I should have as that was the reason they were fighting. Sam’s guilt wouldn’t let him rest easy, especially in light of how he looks up to Dean. He felt that he’d betrayed Dean and that was hard for him to handle. When grown men have feelings they don’t want to deal with it usually looks like anger. When they feel hurt it manifests as anger. When they’re scared it manifests as anger. Some men never get past that emotional stage of development. But I’m glad that the brothers are starting to move past that stage and express what they’re actually feeling and speak to it. It makes for a healthier relationship with your loved one.
      This is the boys down to a tee. I’m understanding it more now. But others on the forums are not seeing the bigger picture, they are not breaking it down and sourcing out evidence as we are, and learning from it all. I’ve loved how we have all mostly agreed that this is what is happening, and are beginning to come to terms with it that its may be not OOC as we originally saw it. So again this might be seen as the famous word this season PERCEPTION. I was right in the fact it was anger with Sam. I think the writers have matured the boys, many fans think this is not so, but I am loving where they are going. It feels different, in a good way!

      Thank you for the comments,
      Love Aunty B xxxx

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      1. “When grown men have feelings they don’t want to deal with it usually looks like anger. When they feel hurt it manifests as anger. When they’re scared it manifests as anger. ”
        I never thought of it that way…

        This is how I’ve always seen Sam. He always, always pents his feelings up. I am exactly the same. It take me months before I talk about it, then cry like a baby. So really I think I have got worked up about Sam this season for no real reason, I must learn to keep it in check 😉 He was really mad in that scene in fact first half of season 8, but we needed to see the whole story pan out! I only wish he had said sorry though just as Dean had. My only grip now!

        Thank you for the comments,
        Love Aunty B xxxx

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  5. Uhg, I was so angry at Sam here! IMO, they both made mistakes in Citizen Fang but I’m still a little irked only Dean apologized. It probably wouldn’t have bothered me as much if I hadn’t still been waiting for an apology or explanation from Sam for not looking for Dean in Purgatory, but when you add both that & the things he did in Citizen Fang together it made Dean’s text message trick not seem like that big of a deal to me. It caused Sam some major worry, but it also might have saved his life. We have Sam who should have never hired Martin – fresh out of the loony bin – in the first place and who also didn’t try to figure out what happened to his brother for a whole year versus Dean sending a text message (douche move, yes) and Dean’s the only one to say sorry? Sorry but that still bothers me, hate to say, and I believe Sam had plenty to apologize for himself. I agree too – if they were both more open from the start I think a lot of animosity could have been avoided but that’s a couple alpha male guys for ya.
    Hi firstly welcome to the group, I do recognize the name, are you Scarlet from IMDb? Great to see a new face. I must admit, I thought Sam was a bit huffy for no real reason when as you remind us, he never even bothered to look for Dean, and he can sometimes get on his high horse, which that did look a bit that way. I felt it was so off for Sam to behave like this towards Dean, when Dean does so much for him. Dean apologized and basically so should Sam have. I think he realized when he met Benny in Purgatory I think he truly realized what a prat he’d been once he realized what type of man Benny was. He should as Dean said trusted him more and not clam up about the situation. But I did feel so badly for him when he turned up at Amelia’s. They both have valid points, and Dean shouldn’t have used Amelia in the way he did. I think Martin was the whole crutch in that story telling process that went pear shaped for him. I didn’t feel sorry at all for Martin, I think he got what was coming to him. Dean was certainly mad with Martin. ‘Give up the day job’ more or less. These boys should stop keeping secrets all the time, because where does it really get them. I wish I could shake them sometimes. As barb said they clearly love each other, but never no how to handle their own personal problems, I could scream!! 😉 I don’t think this season has done Sam any favors at all. I love his character so much, and look what the writers have done to him, made him look horrible and for what end really.

    Thank you for the comments,
    Love Aunty B xxxx

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    1. “are you Scarlet from IMDb?”
      Yes, it is! 🙂 Thanks for the welcome!

      Great stuff, I am really pleased. At least we have some where to come over the summer 😉

      “Dean apologized and basically so should Sam have.” Yes. This season it felt like Sam was simply incapable of giving a straight up apology to his brother. Frustrating to many of us viewers I think! I felt bad for Sam too when he was looking through the window at Amelia and Don, but then we got this scene the next ep where he’s so unwilling to listen and admit any fault himself that I sort of lost my sympathy. I feel Sam lost some of his anger and attitude after Torn & Frayed, but then even in the apology scene in Sacrifice it’s worded in a way that personally set my teeth on edge and we still get some of that anger. I do really wonder if some of this is set up for next season, and if we’ll see any of these threads continued through to season 9 or not.”they clearly love each other, but never no how to handle their own personal problems, I could scream!!”Truer words have not been spoken! LOL!
      Again, you have a strong point, I think they will weave Sam’s personality into season 9. His anger always has been an issue. But it seems ten times more magnified this season. If I could see what he was worked up about, I could understand it. The whole thing with Benny felt so off for so long, then he realizes he made a fool of himself when he met him. So why all the anger in the first place? If this has been maturity for Sam this season I for one, don’t think they’ve put this job across well enough. It hasn’t sat well with me at all, and its peed me off so much. I get this that they want to all the time write one brother good, and the other bad. But I just can’t buy Sam would act this way toward Dean. Its like he’s on drugs or something, that he’s so damn selfish, I could smack him. If the break down has been affecting him mentally, then the damn writers should say so, and put us all out of our misery, as I am getting tired of saying its not Sam. I begin to wonder about Dean if he begins to think something is off again, but nothing coming forth from him. Even Jared mentioned himself at the con it was OOC for him to have done some of the stuff. If he was soulless I could understand his actions, but not this time.

      Thank you for the comments,
      Love Aunty B xxxx

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  6. I think there was plenty of blame to go around this episode. Sam should never have trusted crazy Martin. Sam SHOULD have trusted Dean. Dean should have told Sam more about Benny. Sam shouldn’t have let Martin handcuff Dean. I understand how people thought the text was mean but when I first watched the episode I thought it was ingenious. Yes hurtful, but I do feel Dean only did it to protect Benny AND Sam. (I think at that point in time Sam would have been killed by Benny as Benny was sharp from Purgatory and Sam was soft from the normal life) Sam was wrong leaving Martin when he got the text-all he had to do was grab Martin and throw him in the car and bring him with him. Sam should have heard Dean out when Dean called him. Dean should have told Sam that Martin threatened Elizabeth. Dean at least apologized for what he did (although I think he still felt it was his only choice) and Sam didnt apologize for ANY of his wrongs. Now if they trusted each other and talked to each other none of this would have happened. I cant believe Sam would have reacted the way he did if Dean explained how Benny helped him stay alive for the year in Purgatory and how he helped find Cas (unwillingly but he did) and saved Cas at one point. I also think, if Sam had told dean he fell in love and then found out his loves dead husband wasn’t dead and had to leave even though it broke his heart , Dean would NEVER have sent that text. Do they ever learn??? How can 2 brothers that love each and have given their LIVES for each other not TRUST each other?
    I’m still feeling sometimes even now it wasn’t all on Dean’s shoulders. Yes Sam should never have employed a man like Martin, that was so foolish, it was asking for trouble if you ask me. Yes, I agree again Dean definitely should have informed Sam about Benny. Sam was up front in telling Dean about Martin. Even though Dean wasn’t happy. I am so mad at Sam for allowing Martin to do what he did to Dean. Season 1 Sam wouldn’t have ever allowed this to happen. But in fairness he did taken Martin to one side and collar him about it in the corridor. I think looking at it from Martin’s point of view he didn’t want Dean following them. Bad move in knocking Dean out, but I think I could see why he did it. He knew Dean was going to stop him from killing Benny with good reason. It was very clever, I no I thought this myself at the time about the phone tapping. Didn’t think our writers would pull something like this off. It was obvious after why he took that path. You think the opposite to me. I thought Sam would have taken out Benny, as he was so cock sure of himself in icing the guy, his temper was only fueled by seeing that deed through. I no this still infuriates me why he nicked Martin’s car, and left him stranded. I can only think he had a momentary lapse and he never gave Martin a second thought. It was obvious that Martin was going to end Benny, and Sam left that trap well and truly open for Martin to carry on with the task. Yeap I agree Dean should have told Sam about Elizabeth. This was what felt so strange about this writing was that Dean only apologized, Sam must have known it wasn’t entirely Dean’s fault. Weeks after that scene I thought Sam was wrong in being all huffy at Dean. When they were both in the wrong. No, they never do seem to learn, I could knock their heads together 😉

    Thank you for the comments,
    Love Aunty B xxxx

    Like

  7. Well, first I think Sam hadn’t expected Martin to still be a bit off his rocker (because honestly he was). But Sam also probably figured if I could get Martin to off Benny, then I don’t have to do it myself. If I read the subtext that way then it was Sam figuring out a way to get around Dean, but then Dean pulls the Amelia crap (and it is crap what he did). That then puts more fighting between them. I sometimes think Dean and Sam both tend to take intense stances over the people that come into their lives. Obviously. We all know that both of them are very protective people because of the crap they’ve been put through. In this case, I don’t think blame goes anywhere but on Dean. Once figured Sam wouldn’t back off Benny, his tactic was to pull the Amelia crap. They both know each other well. If I go with the theory that Sam hired Martin so that he wouldn’t have to off Benny, then Dean pulled that Amelia crap to get Sam away. Of course, Martin was also off his rocker so that put more conflict in the episode.
    I get Dean had a lot to do with this, as that phone trick was pre-meditated for want of a better word. He sensed something like this might happen. So putting his plan into place in affect did work. But was a cruel tack-tic to involve Amelia. I no Dean was thinking of saving both men’s skins. But it doesn’t excuse the nature of the deal, using Amelia to pull Sam off the scent. He must have known how torn Sam was over Amelia, what state he was in over her. I felt so sorry for Sam when he finally got there and was peering through her window and sitting comfortably on the sofa with Don. My heart sunk! But I still have never seen Sam so angry as he has been this season, like he’s almost out of control. At first as much as I wanted to believe Sam was right, I felt how he handled it was wrong. Was this perception playing with us again? I still can’t believe Sam would involve someone as clearly unstable as Martin. If he had done the job himself would he of fared any better? So we are sensing that Sam was in the right, to be mad at Dean?

    Thank you for the comments,
    Love Aunty B xxxx

    Like

    1. Oh, I agree that Sam was totally RIGHT in being mad at Dean. I do believe that completely. I still think trust issues have been the boys’ problem since the day they came back together in S1. Ever since figuring out his little brother has demon blood in him Dean had never treated the same. There was always that, “what you going to do next? or “I need to always be around to protect you..” but later in S8 that protecting turns into chaperoning<–which I think makes that one line Sam overhead Dean say in the last episode of S8 all too perfect. I don't think any of this is OOC for either Sam or Dean. It's how they've been acting throughout every season when there is a problem. This time I think the biggest problem was them trusting other people and not each other<which has always been the problem for SAM.

      I went off on a tangent a bit…but let me say that I think Sam deserves to be a little angry at Dean. Dean has this way of being selfishly overprotective and it's high time that Sam tries to break him of that. But Sam cannot sever those ties either. The ties the brothers have are a part of who they are…I don't know, it's difficult to explain, but I think Sam needs to get mad (directly) at Dean. I feel like all it really is, is this "I'm irritated, don't talk to me." We all know that Sam can get angrier than that and I'd love to see him scream in his brother's face. However, I am pretty sure that is just me wishing for something that won't happen.

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      1. “but let me say that I think Sam deserves to be a little angry at Dean. Dean has this way of being selfishly overprotective and it’s high time that Sam tries to break him of that.”

        I disagree only because when Dean ISNT overly protective and has other friends in his life Sam gets annoyed/jealous, whatever word you want to use. Its a vicious cycle.Boy are they are emotionally screwed up

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        1. If Sam gets annoyed/jealous about others in Dean’s life then why would he have told him at the end of S5 to go to Ben and Lisa? I mean with what’s happened to them he would’ve half-excepted to come back.
          Wait, so you’re saying that in moments were Dean isn’t being overly protective, Sam just gets annoyed/jealous?
          I just want to be sure I understand, but I do totally agree that we could just chalk it up to, “boy, they are emotionally screwed up.”

          Season 5 was slightly different as Sam wanted his brother to be happy and he could see his brother settling down with someone like Lisa and having a family and the picket fence life that both of them always wanted. Sam knew he wasn’t going to make it, and was making plans for his brother. He knew Dean would have a hard time without him around. So he was thinking of Dean. He knew his brother would try ways of getting him back. Sam knew it was dangerous to even try. He wanted to put Dean off that scent and take his mind off him.

          This season, its different again I think, because Sam knows he’s not dying. He is protecting his own corner. Sensing Benny as a threat, coming between them both. He could see Benny taking his own place in his brothers affections, IMO. The way the whole Dean/Benny scenes came across as though they were brothers in arms and not Sam and Dean who were the real brothers. It felt false. Me as a viewer looking at from his point of view it looked as though Sam was being pushed out, in favor of Benny. Also seeing how trusting his brother was over this new companion, must have really worked him up. Until of course Dean’s speech in the finale laid those thoughts to rest.

          Thank you for the comments,
          Love Aunty B xxxx

          Like

          1. “If Sam gets annoyed/jealous about others in Dean’s life then why would he have told him at the end of S5 to go to Ben and Lisa?”
            Because he thought he would stay in the box because he made dean promise not to get him out.

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            1. True. I suppose he also assumed that Dean would break that promise, anyway, which I guess comes back around to why Dean was so whatever he was over Sam not looking for him while he was in purgatory…

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      2. I went off on a tangent a bit…but let me say that I think Sam deserves to be a little angry at Dean. Dean has this way of being selfishly overprotective and it’s high time that Sam tries to break him of that. But Sam cannot sever those ties either. The ties the brothers have are a part of who they are…I don’t know, it’s difficult to explain, but I think Sam needs to get mad (directly) at Dean. I feel like all it really is, is this “I’m irritated, don’t talk to me.” We all know that Sam can get angrier than that and I’d love to see him scream in his brother’s face. However, I am pretty sure that is just me wishing for something that won’t happen.
        Dean has always been over protective of Sam that is to an extent true. Since there have been no parents around he feels its up to him to look out for Sammy. Mother’s apron strings, yes I get this talk. But there seemed a group of times when Sam was over mad this season, like Dean seemed to be doing everything wrong in Sam’s eyes when it was Sam who was ratty, and he was the one doing most of the things wrong. May be this is perception staring at me again. But Sam’s temperament has changed so much this year, I feel as though I don’t no him any more.

        Thank you for the comments,
        Love Aunty B xxxx

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        1. “Sam was over mad this season, like Dean seemed to be doing everything wrong in Sam’s eyes when it was Sam who was ratty, and he was the one doing most of the things wrong”
          I agree with this-I even thought he appeared angry in Sacrifice when he was supposedly apologizing for letting dean down. Just my perception of course

          You no what, I think it is perception, I can’t believe Sam would normally act this way. Debbab might tell me if I’m right here, she’s a pretty good judge of perception 😉 But it just feels this way. Sam apologized to Kevin, but he didn’t really come out with an excuse of not looking for Dean, which seemed odd at the time. Then at the end of one of the episodes forgotten which, Sam swears he’ll Ice Benny. Now Sam has always been the one not to shot first. Then this wired scene in torn and frayed. That’s why I think Sam has been badly written this season, unless perception is the answer. I really hate what the writers have done to him. I was so sure something supernatural was behind his mood swings, or the demon blood in the past. But he really is off this year, and I’m so frustrated when no real answers heading his way. Sam has apologized in the past, why isn’t he now? 😦

          Thank you for the comments,
          Love Aunty B xxxx

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          1. “Sam was over mad this season, like Dean seemed to be doing everything wrong in Sam’s eyes when it was Sam who was ratty,”

            I agree. I actually felt like Sam was angry and upset that his life w/ Amelia was over, and Dean coming back when he did made Dean sort of the perfect target for Sam’s misplaced anger. It was like Sam didn’t know what to do w/ his feelings, was unhappy that he was right back to hunting, and took it out on Dean, when it wasn’t Dean’s fault his “normal” life w/ her didn’t work out.
            Scarlet I think, you’ve got a good point there too. He clearly didn’t want to come back into the game, and took it out on Dean, when he probably shouldn’t have.

            Thank you for the comments,
            Love Aunty B xxxx

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        2. It’s funny that you keep saying that you feel as if you don’t know him, when I think Sam hasn’t strayed from himself at all. Maybe he was a little more angrier than usual, but Dean wasn’t making it easy by doing things that he did, which is basically make his little brother feel guilty for most of his life.

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      3. This exactly. It was obvious to us that Sam had intense feelings for the woman and what Dean did was kind of douche. Sam had every right to be mad about it and Dean had a right to be mad at Sam and Martin’s treatment of him although I will also add he brought that on himself. He really should have sat down with Sam and explained Purgatory and Benny and the whole thing, then none of this would have happened.
        Yes Dean should have done. We recall how mad Dean was over Ruby, and many could see the same thing happening again. I still think it was Sam’s way of protecting Dean. He didn’t want his brother having to kill the guy if he got out of hand. I really do feel he was only looking out for Dean. That’s why he got Martin to tag Benny. Sam at the time didn’t really no Benny even though he didn’t handle it very well. This also comes back to the finale speech that he feels a failure, cause Martin ended up dead on his watch.

        Okay maybe Martin would still be dead. Sam even had a right to be mad about Benny. Carrying around this massive load of guilt at having failed Dean while he was in Purgatory and then constantly hearing about how wonderful Benny was must have really set Sam’s teeth on edge.
        I totally see why Sam was mad about Benny, the whole Benny line to Dean about being brothers grated with me, so god knows how Sam must have felt inside.

        Now for the last time, both of these guys are not OOC. You guys really need to go back and intensely watch the series from episode one. They pretty much act like this all the time. I mean come on there was ac time when Sam regularly ran away when he got mad. It’s how he met Meg. Sam doing unpredictable or unusual things is just his regular behavior.
        I recall how Sam has acted in the past, he shouldn’t have walked away from most of his fall outs with Dean. Sam has always tended to bury his head in the sand, and not hashed it all out. But this row got to me because Dean was pre-mad at Sam for not looking for him, the phone calls and other stuff. It was just his whole attitude as though he didn’t care about the people he just ignored it all. So it just seemed that Sam seemed over mad, making a mountain out of it. Preaching at Dean was he’s been just as bad. It was bad what Dean did with the phone. I said as much that it was a cruel, premeditated trick even though it was for a good reason. He shouldn’t have used Amelia to get Sam out of harms way. But I still think the writers have done their home work on the boys, but with Sam I feel like he’s jumping the gun a bit. He has a right to be angry at Dean, but also we never had a real explanation about his behavior. We all no I love Sam to bits. Even I can’t explain how odd he feels to me. May be I do need to go back and re-watch. But so many have said even Jared himself says he’s OOC. It did just feel as though the apology was only coming from Dean, when in my eyes, they both should have said sorry.

        But thank you for writing this andwriter. I’m still a little tired of the OOC comments by people. I cant understand why people just wont cooperate with me and believe whatever I say. 😀
        I’ve got what you’ve been saying. I did applaud you honey 😉

        Thank you for the comments,
        Love Aunty B xxxx

        Like

        1. “They pretty much act like this all the time.”
          I said this in a previous post that after all these years and giving their lives for each other they still don’t TRUST each other.

          It just feels much more magnified this year though. May be its because their getting older 😉

          Thank you for the comments,
          Love Aunty B xxxx

          Like

        2. it’s Dean being too trusting in someone else (a vampire no less). However, I can say that Dean trusts too easy [which is odd to think, but I believe he does] and latches onto the nearest thing/person that saves his life and/or seems like the safest thing to trust (Cas). But then the story line has played upon the whole, “everyone betrays Dean” so that trust is shot down rather quickly. Benny’s short-lived run was him sticking with Dean all the way and then sacrificing himself to help Dean patch up things/save his brother.
          I think this is a good point, that Dean is too trusting, I did think it when Benny first appeared thinking back. It must have been a tough decision to be in. How could he have un-associated himself with someone that had saved his life? More than once, and had his back. I still think Benny was deliberately honing in on Dean as a way out. It felt as though he was using Dean just to get topside. But again those thoughts took a back burner when he helped Dean save Sam. He had redeemed those previous nagging thoughts. I think it was the whole Vampire thing that got up Sam’s backside, if it was a human, it wouldn’t have worried him half as much.

          Thank you for the comments,
          Love Aunty B xxxx

          Like

          1. Also I think a lot of people forget that these are grown men. They are not 12 yr. old emo girls. Grown men as a general rule SHOW their love and don’t usually speak of it unless under extreme duress. When men have strong emotions what it looks like to everyone else is anger and a lot of men do not spend a lot of time analyzing their feelings and where they come from or what to do with them. In fact Sam and Dean are completely in character for a couple of grown manly type men who are very macho. If you don’t know too many men like that then I guess their problem with communicating can be frustrating and puzzling to watch. Plus add in their various life traumas and the kind of life they lead that regularly endangers and or kills them and their upbringing and BOY! do they have ISSUES.

            Their relationship is very much like a marriage. These are two very different personalities that regularly fall into the trap of thinking they understand each other, don’t,and yet have to find a way to work together for what they consider a greater good. It requires a great deal of personal work and growth with the individual and each other and I can see those baby steps being taken. Dean now, is a far cry from the boyish, immature creature we met in season one. He was much more selfish then.

            And about selfishness. Sam is entitled to be selfish although I think he’s one of the most selfless beings on the planet, because younger siblings get that right. It is on the elder brother or sister to shoulder the great burdens of resopnsibities, or so I believe leaving the younger siblings less responsibility and stress to work at other things. They get to be children longer because they have been sheltered from a lot of the adult responsibilities that have taken on by their older siblings and that’s the way it should be. Some people, having been cast into the position of older sibling, have feelings of resentment towards their younger brothers and sisters. But those of us, like Dean, who embrace the role find our live stressful but fulfilling and that is where Dean is right now and I’m so proud of him as he has come a long way from the angry young man who resented being in that position and would guilt. Sam about it. Sam is the way he is because of Dean’s care and love and couldn’t be any other way. What seemsselfish to some people is just a younger sibling being a little brother.You guys should pick up some books on family dynamics. It is incredibly informative of how the Winchesters work.

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            1. You know I have no arguments with what you say here. I am pretty sure books on family dynamics help explain how the Winchesters work. I am an older sibling but in a mixed family so it works differently…but as for the Supernatural parts of this, I was reading somewhere that some of the actors at one point even thought they were being too emotional and “over sharing” with feelings and of course society speaking for a man to be that sensitive is weird/unaccepted. However, Sam and Dean have evolved from some of the macho crap and basically grew up. At least I hope they’ve grown up some.

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          2. I don’t know about that too trusting thing. I’m having trouble with the idea that Benny actively sought out Dean to use him to get out of Purgatory. And that Dean began to overlook the fact that he was essentially being used. But then I think Dean is a man who is not impressed with the things people say to him. What impresses Dean are a person’s actions and he wound up being impressed by Benny’s actions in having his back even though it was in Benny’s best interests to do so. Sam is a man impressed by what people say more than what they do. Its just an observation. I’ve made that if you behave in a way Dean approves then he tends to adopt you into his emotional family. Like Cas and Charlie. If you do things he doesn’t approve of he’s liable to rip you a new one. Like Samuel Campbell and Henry Winchester. If you go back and watch As Time Goes By you can see the brother’s different reactions to their grandfather. Sam wants to be friendly and talk and get information but Dean who is angry about Henry’s perceived sins wont even shake the man’s hand. Dean is also much more likely to express his unhappiness with a person through action. It interesting to watch him start to understand this about Sam. That the things he SAYS to Sam mean a lot to Sam, because Sam will accept words over actions quicker than Dean.
            I so agree with this, especially when you think Dean was right not to trust Samuel the bas**** soled the boys down the river, to Crowley with out a by or leave. He wanted Mary back but didn’t give a toss about her children, his own grandchildren. I thought that very strange.

            Thank you for the comments,
            Love Aunty B xxxx

            Like

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