How will Sam react when he finds out about Ezekiel?

This was part of an article I put up on Supernaturally Devoted if you want to read in full as the post is long click here: http://supernaturallydevoted.wordpress.com/

Now my only thought with Gadreel was that when Dean confessed Dean was only letting on to Gadreel when he thought it was Sam. So Sam hasn’t really heard all of Dean’s confession yet. So how will the real scene go down? Yes Gad did give a solid punch, from Sam into Dean’s face. So where will this initially leave Sam. Up the creak without a paddle? He is still none the wiser, and will continue to act as another angel until Dean rescues him from Gads clutches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B_R6SgUf-g

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During Dean’s confession to Sam Dean lays his situation on the line and Sam is rightly pissed. Dean thinks that Sam can’t handle the situation and he takes over, and Dean replies I did what I had to do.  You would never have had agreed with it and you would have died. Sam replies ‘Well it would have been nice to have had a choice at least’. So Sam is angry with not being able to have the right to make up his own mind, and have the choice in saying if he wanted to live or not. So was Dean wrong in not allowing Sam to have that human choice that right we all expect even though Sam was lying half dead in a coma, and wasn’t of sound mind to make that decision. So Dean has been torn between the rock and a hard place without being able to justify what he really did out of the goodness of his heart. So is Sam in a fit position to demand the right to chose when he was in a coma, when not conscious. Many people let loved ones pass on when on heart monitors and are told by doctors that it’s the end of the road for that patient. We have to make that heart wrenching impossible choice of letting them go because they simply cannot do it. So as the loved one we have to give permission to turn off that machine which is keeping them alive. Dean didn’t get this far, and the life of his brother was saved and miraculously lived to tell the tale. But at what human cost for Sam? He wasn’t able to make that conscious choice so Dean had to do it for him. So Does Sam have a leg to stand on when Sam wasn’t of sound mind there was no way he could have even spoken to make contact with Gadreel in their real world, when it all played out in Sam’s head.

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So how will this heated discussion settle, will they ever be able to agree on Dean’s life saving choice to allow Sam the passage of life rather than death that he so craved. It’s such an impossible situation for them both to be in and I can see why Sam is so angry in not being allowed that choice. But he technically wasn’t here so how could he have made that choice in the first place? Sam’s head was so screwed that was he really wanting to end his own life, was life clouding his own judgement that would he have made that right call in the end? This is powerful stuff to think about, but would like to know your thoughts on Sam’s right to have a choice and that his choice was heard. But taking all into consideration being a coma patient didn’t really allow him that right so where do you think this leaves Sam?

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17 thoughts on “How will Sam react when he finds out about Ezekiel?

  1. I’m fairly convinced that the reason we had GadSam tell Dean off angrily is because we are not going to get RealSam doing the same thing. I think that scene was for the benefit of people who wanted Sam to be mad. I’m starting to toy with the idea that when Sam finds out he will revert to his mindset at the church. He will feel like a failure for YET AGAIN not realizing he was being tricked by a supernatural creature. If anything he could feel worse. Fandom is already saying that Sam should have no trouble throwing Gad out. He took control from Lucifer after all. It ignores the facts that Sam doesn’t know he has anyone to fight and that he is apparently so injured that he is still dying, but Sam might well ignore those facts as well. Dean has told him for years why he isn’t strong enough, good enough, worthy enough. He may tell others he believes in Sam, but only when Sam is out of the room. A great deal of the point of Sacrifice is that Sam believes that Dean doesn’t trust him and finds him lacking. Dean’s speech to Sam at the church said that Sam comes before everything, not that he doesn’t find him lacking or that he trusts Sam. If Sam has internalized all that, his reaction could well be deep depression.

    It might actually be interesting to see Sam actually act the way Dean and some of fandom sees him. Dean could well lose Sam to his version of incompetent brother who can’t make decisions and who has always let him down. Sam actually having depressive breakdown is one way to show how badly he has been damaged emotionally. Dean wants wants his brother to be by his side, enthusiastically doing what Dean wants. A Sam who is truly broken by Dean’s actions MAY make Dean actually see how the decision, not to save Sam, but to refuse to tell Sam what was going on affects Sam. Sam being angry and hurt are what Dean is used to. Sam is a forgiver. He gets angry and hurt, walks away to cool down and then Dean finds him demands he get over being a bitch about what Dean did and Sam does. So anger and hurt repeat that pattern that has kept this cycle going. A total emotional meltdown that Dean can’t run away from may change that pattern.

    Dean has, in one way or another, hammered on Sam for not being good enough since season one. In season one, Sam was a bad brother and son because he went to college. In season two Dean flat out told Sam that Sam had no right to grieve for John because it was too little too late. In season three Dean refused to let Sam try to save him, leaving Sam feeling helpless and incompetent. Season four had him telling Sam how the angels hated him using his powers to save people and then Sam really crashed and burned and released Lucifer. Dean never really forgave or trusted Sam in season five until just before Sam jumped into the Cage. Soulless!Sam was not interested in Dean’s approval, but when Sam got his soul back Dean refused to let him find out what his body had done while soulless. It was for a good reason, but again, the message is Sam can’t handle it. Season seven had Sam hallucinating and truly not being able to handle certain things. Season eight had Dean feeling betrayed by Sam’s not looking for him and repeatedly bringing up Sam’s past failure, sometimes in response to supernatural influence and sometimes not (Benny the better brother, the list of failings in Sacrifice). Now Dean has shown that he doesn’t trust Sam to make decisions about himself and his own life. At what point does Sam just give up believing in himself and fold under the weight of never being good enough?

    I get it, but I also see it too that Dean does care otherwise he wouldn’t go ahead and do these stupid deals to save Sam. If he thought so little of Sam why would he continue to save him?

    I love reading the comments thank you,
    Love Aunty B xxx

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  2. I think you guys did a great discussion on the topic so I will not be repetitive. The only thing I want to add about Dean and Sam based on lkeke35 comments is that Sam’s sense of self is greater than Dean’s. Sam was allowed to have a childhood of sorts whereas Dean’s ended at the age of four. Sam made a choice about leaving the hunting life, but as Dean stated during season 6, John made him a killer; he is only good at slicing throats. Sam is the only good and constant entity in Dean’s life so Dean cannot imagine a life without him. Sam has had at least two long term girlfriends and has lived without Dean by choice. Dean is so frightened by the potential loss of Sam, I think that he would kill himself if Sam died. I think Sam is aware of Dean’s fragile emotions where he is concerned and will forgive Dean for making that deal to save his life. A lot has changed since the deal of season 2. When Sam was talking to Death in the season 9 premiere, he just wanted to be sure that when he died, Dean would not be able to reverse Sam’s choice. Since Sam stated that he wanted to live, albeit he was tricked into the possession, he should not be angry about the deal. Sam will be enraged that Kevin was killed by the angel possessing his body, but he should not be angry at Dean for being mislead when he was making decisions out of panic and fear.
    I feel from Sam’s point of view I think he will be pissed at both, but then will come to terms with it and realize why Dean did it as I said before. Its just in Sam’s nature to be mad, fly off the handle and then calm down. He hates the thought of possession particularly since Lucifer and how cruel Lucifer was to him. I can see why he’s mad at both decisions but yes primarily Dean did do it out of fear of loosing Sam which is slightly different to season 2. But season 2 it was early days and the first time he’d done a deal because he’d seen his dad do it for him. Dean is scared as hell to be on his own and we all feel his guilt and stress how deep it goes. It really is a tricky one as we can see both sides to it. Sam will be so upset they’ve lost Kevin through an action from his vessel. But there’s not much he can really do to correct that error, unless Gad for redemption purposes or ever Cas bring him back.

    I love reading the comments thank you,
    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. Yes! This! I forgot to state this in my little speech. It really is Dean that’s the fragile one emotionally and I think both brothers are well aware of this although neither will acknowledge it, unless under duress (the demon blood argument in season 5, for example.) I dread to see how the writers would depict Sam’s emotional breakdown. I don’t see them going that route but we did see something similiar in Born Again Identity, which I found fascinating.

      Sam on his own is mostly just unfocused. I think its the reason he keeps coming back to Dean. Dean gives his life direction in a way nothing else does. Dean is his magnetic North, so to speak. If there is no Dean without Sam then Sam doesn’t know where to focus his attention without Dean. Every time that he’s been alone he searches out someone, anyone, to be his rudder in place of Dean.(And ,btw, Sam is a scarily focused bladesman.)

      Sam has shown autonomy and agency before, so when it comes to being alone, Sam is not the one I worry about. I worry about Dean. He barely scraped by, mentally, that year without Sam and was furious at everyone, even Bobby, for not telling him Sam was still alive (in some form, anyway.)

      Sam said it himself. As long as he thinks Dean needs him, he’ll be by his side, and he KNOWS Dean needs him, so he ain’t leavin’.

      Oh, these poor guys!

      I so agree with this I think its spot on that Dean is Sam’s magnet he wants to stand on his own to feet but then realizes he can’t because someone keeps drawing him back and that someone is Dean.

      Thank you,
      Love Aunty B xxx

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    2. “Since Sam stated that he wanted to live, albeit he was tricked into the possession, he should not be angry about the deal. Sam will be enraged that Kevin was killed by the angel possessing his body, but he should not be angry at Dean for being mislead when he was making decisions out of panic and fear.”
      I totally agree with this-and supposedly the boys matured ;last year-lets see if Sam shows that hes matured and doesn’t crucify Dean for his decision.

      I want him to mature but at the same time it was more than one thing that Sam will be mad over. I also think this argument when it surfaces will take longer to heal than most in the past because of the shear extent of it. I really do want to see it in a good way, I hope they prove us right this time. Dean still thinks Sam knows, and he doesn’t oh my!

      Thank you,
      Love Aunty B xxx

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  3. “So Does Sam have a leg to stand on when Sam wasn’t of sound mind there was no way he could have even spoken to make contact with Gadreel in their real world, when it all played out in Sam’s head.”
    Its the one saving grace of the situation. There was no way to actually ask conscious Sam. Its not like Dean COULD have asked but didnt, he had to act fast and was desperate. If I was Sam Id be pissed that he tricked me but Id be thrilled to be alive. JMHO

    This was what I thought, so how could Sam actually pose this thought back to Dean, he must have known he couldn’t have done anything about it, so I think its a tough one as you say. I am hoping for this that after his tantrum as usual he will see why. That’s all I can hope for. But I’m with you, I would be glad that I was alive. But Sam so desperately wanted to go, it will be hard for him to get his head around this.

    I love reading the comments thank you,
    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. The problem is that this isn’t a one time decision that Dean made and was over. He continued to not tell Sam what he did. No, Dean couldn’t talk to Sam at the time he tricked him, but months have passed and he didn’t give Sam a heads up about a continuing situation. In addition to keep Sam in the dark, Dean had to make Sam think something was wrong with himself. “You got knocked out so I took on three demons all by myself to save your ass, like always”. “You’re not losing time, it’s the trials.” “You really shouldn’t go hunting, you’re too weak, stay here and I’ll help Cas.” And then there is Kevin. I know people say Sam shouldn’t fee guilty about Kevin, but he will. After all AGAIN he was tricked by a supernatural being who eventually used him to kill a friend. He saved Cas and Charlie? That’s great except the one thing that hasn’t been ret-conned is “what’s dead should stay dead” and that interfering with the natural order never turns out well. Dean’s mistake is not the initial choice, although I have problems with the fact that Dean stated that he knew Sam would not want to be saved that way. His mistake is continuing to not tell Sam. Sam is not mentally ill. Sam has a right to have a say over his body. Sam had a right to know what was going on. The fact that Sam might decide to not make the choice Dean wanted didn’t mean that he shouldn’t have the right to make the choice. People get to make decisions on their medical care all the time. Sam should have that right as well.
      I do agree with this, it was the continuous lying behind his back. I no he had no choice, because Zeke would eject from Sam if he got a mere whiff of Dean spilling the beans. I hate it when the writers do this, putting them in impossible situations. I think this season is making Dean look really bad, when last season it was Sam’s turn at being on the chopping block. I just hate the thought where this is going to lead when it all does come out. I’ve got a headache just thinking about it.

      I love reading the comments thank you,
      Love Aunty B xxx

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      1. “His mistake is continuing to not tell Sam.”
        He was going to tell Sam but Zeke said not to as Sam wasn’t strong enough yet. Dean could have taken that chance but after all he went through keeping the secret it wasn’t worth it.

        I think this was what I said too. Each time Dean tries to tell Sam Zeke pops out and stops him.

        Thank you,
        Love Aunty B xxx

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        1. My point was that he should have told Sam immediately. “Zeke” wasn’t threatening to kill Sam at that point. “Zeke” simply said Sam could eject him if he wanted. Dean lollygagged around hoping “Zeke” would heal Sam, leave the building and he would never have to give Sam the choice of being possessed or not. Sam had the right to know from the very beginning what was going on and consent or not consent. One attempt to tell him MONTHS after everything went down just isn’t enough, IMHO.

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          1. “My point was that he should have told Sam immediately. “Zeke” wasn’t threatening to kill Sam at that point. “
            Zeke never threatened to kill Sam-he said Sam wasnt well enough to survive if he ejected Zeke. Dean didn’t want to take the chance telling him until he was well enough to survive without Zeke’s help. He had him in a no win situation. If he told Sam and Sam ejected Zeke he would die (or so he believed) and Dean would rather risk Sams wrath and be sure that Sam would live.

            I agree with this sorry Percy. It was too risky for Dean to let anything slip he was caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

            Thank you,
            Love Aunty B xxx

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            1. But isn’t the threat implied? I mean, Zeke never came out and stated it but it was implied that if Dean opens his mouth, Sam will die? Isn’t that sort of like holding Sam hostage.
              He’s been technically holding Sam hostage all the way along the line, we knew this from the last episode when he walked out of the bunker with Sam and the tablets.

              And this is why I don’t necessarily see Gadreel as a bad guy. He had dean exactly where he wanted. he could have made Dean agree to do anything for Sam’s life. But all he seems to have wanted was a good place to hide. (Still have no idea what Gadreel’s end game was in coming to Dean.)
              I do, he wanted some where to hide to be out of the angel radar as he’d escaped his prison sentence and he thought the angels were after him. He was surprised when he found out that Metatron had released him when the angels fell. He lied about who he really was, why lie? Why not be open and honest from the jump. Because he was a prisinor of heaven. He also kicked Cas out of the bunker and forced him to be homeless, because he would give his name away and it wasn’t worth the risk. He was probably falsely imprisoned the sentenced appeared harsh, but already he was lying for no real reason. This was why I kept thinking why does it take angels so long to heal when they do it instantly it didn’t make any sense? We sensed he was over staying his welcome and also thought he would be a bugger to get rid of. He wouldn’t leave willingly. I bet the boys will have real trouble banishing him when it comes to it.

              Thank you,
              Love Aunty B xxx

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              1. “But isn’t the threat implied? I mean, Zeke never came out and stated it but it was implied that if Dean opens his mouth, Sam will die? Isn’t that sort of like holding Sam hostage. “

                No he wasn’t threatening to DO anything he was stating what Dean thought was a fact. Sam will die if Zeke leaves him.

                “And this is why I don’t necessarily see Gadreel as a bad guy. He had Dean exactly where he wanted. He could have made Dean agree to do anything for Sam’s life. But all he seems to have wanted was a good place to hide. (Still have no idea what Gadreel’s end game was in coming to Dean.)”

                I agree with this 100%
                Barb, see my previous notes.

                Thank you,
                Love Aunty B xxx

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  4. I remember feeling so much tension around the idea of what would happen when Sam found out what he did and I was distracted right in the middle of Dean’s speech. I was thinking to myself, what if that’s not Sam. I have to go back and watch it again but Gadreel did or said something to put me on alert. I just don’t remember a clue.
    Me too 😉 I really did think at first it was Sam then I remember thinking he’d altered the sigil so it was a real job to decide at one point if Sam had really heard Dean’s confession or not? Which was why I wasn’t certain if Sam had really laid that punch on Dean, even though it was Sam’s meat-suit.

    I do remember knowing for sure it was Gadreel when he was standing in the door staring at Kevin and I knew Kevin was his target. It was the look in his eye and his body language changed but there was no blue eye flash so that was the clue for me.
    Yeap the body language was the giveaway there, but not always. The store room scene was hard to call it. I thought I remember seeing his eyes light up when he was standing in the door way?

    I remember feeling frustrated too because Dean had a great speech and it was wasted on Gadreel and now he’s got to do it again later. But the next time it happens it will probably be a conversation they will be having while doing something more important and Sam won’t have time to really react. I know because these writers seem determined to not let us see the “real” Sam this season. I’m still very optimistic that the rest of the season will let Sam be himself and outside of being mad at Dean, relatively happy. Maybe if we’re lucky we may get to see Sam save Dean. Will he forgive Dean. Of course he will. He’s forgiven some of the worse things Dean has ever done and hell forgive him for this too.
    Double dose of Dean’s speech this will be interesting actually to see how different the speeches are. It was so wasted, poor sod has to go through it all over again. Well the second half of the season does tend to fall around Sam so hopefully we will see him at some point, they do split up again apparently and episode 10 is really sad, and the boys found it difficult to film. Then hopefully we will see dark Dean. I hope so I so want Sam to talk Dean through his depression this time and be their for him. Of course he will forgive Dean when the dust has settled he always does. 🙂 But what did you think about Sam’s right to choose whether he had an angel inside him or not?

    I love reading the comments thank you,
    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. I hadn’t thought much beyond it was a violation of his will but later I thought, Sam wanted to live. If some part of him didn’t want to live he would never have imagined Dean was present and would never have said yes. Was there some element of trickery involved? Sure. As soon as he thought Dean had a plan he said yes. That it wasn’t Dean he said yes to was beside the point. He thought it was Dean and that’s enough for me. I think I’ve avoided thinking about this too hard because issues of consent on this show are always very gray and can drive a person crazy thinking about it.
      They are often grey area’s your right there. But when Dean does stupid deals he doesn’t always think things through, he panics and just blunders on in there without really thinking of the consequences. This is what bugs me about Dean sometimes. I know his heart is really in the right place for Sam. We all are aware of this deep down, and he had an idea of how Sam would react. It was a rotten thing to do to trick Sam, but again can see why he did it. He saw red and saw it as the only way out of this mess. So he took it. He did know how Sam would feel so I can’t spring that on him. But did he really dig down deep and wonder what if. What would Sam have done if he were in my shoes? Will he hate me for it afterwards, does Sam have a choice here?

      Now, that said, I think Dean did overstep by making such an agreement. But Dean being Dean, it was the only choice he could make. He has to be himself and couldn’t have made any other choice. Its what he does and who he is and quite frankly even if he knew then what he knows now I think he’d still do it. He’d just take extra precautions.
      Yes, I really do. But talking to others that would be a complete no, no. I agree with you. It wouldn’t be Dean if he didn’t pull crazy stunts like this all the time. I hope Sam does realize this too.

      I love reading the comments thank you,
      Love Aunty B xxx

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      1. I respectfully disagree. I think Dean did think things through. I think he took into account that Sam wouldn’t like being possessed, that he’d be angry with him and that one day Zeke might betray him. He thought of all of that but because he cannot bear the thought of being without Sam again -like after season five – he made the only decision that he could possibly have made.
        But when Dean does stupid deals he doesn’t always think things through, he panics and just blunders on in there without really thinking of the consequences. This is what bugs me about Dean sometimes.
        I said sometimes, not always. I was thinking back to when Dean made a deal to save Sam back in season 2 and Sam was really angry and said you shouldn’t have done that. This case is similar in a lot of ways. This is why Dean does deals because he can’t bear to be without Sam, and Sam gets mad at Dean for pulling silly stunts. I can so see a repeat going on when he does find out for real. He thinks, I admit and got he didn’t have a lot of choice as no other angel came knocking at his door. It was really difficult for him to deal. But I can just see Sam’s reaction saying stuff like you never take my feelings into account.

        Given the slightest opportunity Dean is a man who chooses life and living and like a lot of things he doesn’t understand about his brother he would never have understood Sam wanting to die. He would see it as Sam ababdoning him. Every time Sam has left him, (Stanford, Amelia, Lucifer) Dean sees it as Sam wanting to be away from him and given Dean’s issues with self esteem, there is no other way for him to see it. And lets be fair (as Sarek, from Star Trek., once said) Dean’s logic is uncertain where Sam is concerned.
        I get this, and can see both sides of it. I don’t think for one minute Sam wanted to go to Stanford to get away from Dean it was the family life style he wanted out from. But yes I can see Dean would see it this way.

        He can only be himself. My heart breaks for him. It really does. How he’s put himself in a situation that’s going to hurt him no matter what he does because he has a pathological inability to deal with loss in any healthy way, especially when it comes to Sam.
        Its certainly not healthy for him to continuously be in these situations. I don’t know why the writers continually put Dean there.

        I still say that after Sam went into the cage, Dean suffered greatly that year. I think it was very very bad for him and his loathe to ever go through that again. I think that year has informed a lot of his behavior towards Sam since even his anger in season eight because he didnt understand how Sam could just go on with his life without him.
        I know, those scenes during Exile on Main street were heartbreaking to watch. Sam probably wasn’t thinking those scenes through either in his head. He couldn’t have been in his right mind any way. So I take those with a pinch of salt. But this is the continuing love story of Sam and Dean after all. 😉

        But Sam is a forgiving soul. He will be angry but Sam is also logical in a way Dean isnt. He will think it through and come to the conclusion that Dean had no choice and that’s what he does.
        Yeap. I am keeping everything crossed, he will.

        You do understand that the things that were said in that fight were said by Zeke. Although, to be fair, he was probably echoing Sam’s potential thoughts.
        Yes! He did say ‘I played him convincingly I thought’ I have a strong feeling about this too. But then did read earlier about Zeke saying their ain’t you then there ain’t no me, that again this was Zeke as Dean wouldn’t say something like this. But I’m not so sure. Zeke wanted to give that punch line to bring Sam back and to get him to come back, come what may.

        I love reading the comments thank you,
        Love Aunty B xxx

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        1. Maybe the writers will fix it so that eventually Dean’s decision will have a good outcome. He couldn’t save Kevin but maybe because he made the decision for Sam to be alive the world or heaven might be saved or heck maybe just Cas.
          I so hope so. Its such a horrible situation for both of them to be in. So much crap has gone their way, and they don’t catch much of a break these days. 😉

          I love reading the comments thank you,
          Love Aunty B xxx

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          1. I admit I am just the opposite, for once I want Dean to make a mistake that doesn’t end up with him coming up smelling like roses, while Sam gets told that his wishes, wants and needs are completely unimportant because Dean is always right and Sam is always wrong. Dean violated what he knew Sam wanted. He then continued to not permit Sam to make a decision about himself, his body and how he wanted to live. That shouldn’t be blown off easily because Gad does something good later. I’ve had it with Dean telling Sam he’s a bitch to be mad at Dean FOR AN ENTIRE WEEK and just get over it, while Dean hoards his anger about things Sam did years ago and then pull them out like a weapon whenever he so chooses. I also don’t like Kevin being reduced to a pawn in the game of Dean does nothing bad. Kevin mattered. Having Gad do something good should not make Kevin unimportant and his death be “Well Kevin died but who cares, look at the good thing Gad did”. Kevin, who’s Kevin look at Gad the good would make me furious.
            Dean has done some really shady stuff in the past. And yes he does boss Sam when he feels in the mood. But he really feels remorse over Kevin and its not very often Dean shows us his tears. He was beaten up about Kevin and couldn’t do jack squat about it. Sam has had the rough end of this, there is no doubt. He’s been kept in the dark and shouldn’t have been. But again as I’ve said, Dean had no other choice. He tricked him into saying yes as he said in the mid-season finale, but as Dean said Sam wouldn’t have agreed to it. So even though the trick was under hand I can see why he made that choice. One thing we can say about Dean is his loyalty to Sam. Even Zeke complimented Dean in saying he did what he did out of love for Sam, and he would in time see this even though its gone against Sam’s grain.

            I love reading the comments thank you,
            Love Aunty B xxx

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            1. I see your point, but is that not like so many of the relationships we actually know in life. You’ve got the one who forgives, no matter what, and the injustice hoarder, who holds onto everything.

              Boy, do I know people just like this.And yet these people seem absolutely powerless to change these particular attitudes, no matter how exasperating or infuriating they are.

              I don’t see the brothers changing too much from this model anytime soon. (At any rate, all the fans would start screaming that they were out of character if that happened. .)
              I can’t see the writers changing this pattern any time soon either. Mind you the boys did meet the writers a while ago which turned out to be true, so you never no!

              Thank you,
              Love Aunty B xxx

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