This seasons moans and groans.

I have been looking around the net, on various sites and comments box’s and it appears many are saying similar things. See what you think to my list and if you agree or disagree. I thought it would make an interesting discussion point. Here goes …..

– Demons are no longer scary … Remember Azazel, Alistair, Ruby, Meg and yes to a point our modern Crowley. You could at least tell they were scary and acted the part. At least they were scary in their own ways. Even Abaddon has shown promise just to be a one of poster girl with her story telling cut down in her prime.

– They are killing off Angels to give Cas a purpose. Fans have lost count of the times that how many angels have been slaughtered just for the sake of angst. Angels no longer have a responsibility.

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– Meat-suits of demons and angels are randomly being killed off and the human suit isn’t really being thought about much any longer. Not like it used to be when the boys wanted to save Meg for example, they used to do all they could to save the host. Now without much thought hundreds of angels and demons are dying purely for dramatic reasons.

– Was Dean going to apologize to Sam in this week’s episode?

– Some are saying Sam won’t give Dean the opportunity to apologize. Did Sam block Dean and prevent him from finding out?

– Many fans think that Sam is scared of being alone without Dean as vice versa. Both save each other when they know they have too. As both are charged up, scared stiff that something has happened to the other. Their biggest fear is being alone, and having to cope without the other. Is Sam reflecting his own thoughts to Dean, is this what Sam is really scared of too. Sam was lost, and had a breakdown when Dean was in Purgatory and in Mystery Spot. As we saw he went to pieces.

– Every 5-6 episodes – too much filler and monster of the weeks. Not enough forward movement on the show’s arc and character progress.

– Dean has been far more aggressive at Sam in the past, and for a lot longer. Let’s give Sam his due, he so right to be pissed.

– Sam’s point was, what is Dead should stay Dead, as Dean remarked on in Season 2, he knew it too. Or we thought he did. No deals with anyone for a reason. It’s started a domino effect  like it always does. Sam would have expired. The life or death of one person changes the core of the Natural Order. Sam survived, Kevin died in his place. Sam feels guilt for Kevin’s death for two reasons.

– Are there structural severe problems within the show itself? Has the quality of the writing dropped?

– Have the writers changed direction with the bro-mance? From the pranking around, and bitch/jerk moments. Have they gone into over kill by turning them against each other?

– Is this season feeling like one big filler?

– Do we see a season which is having problems of over abundance of muddled stories that are going nowhere? There is NO fluidity nothing is joining – gelling together as one fluid arc or seasonal arc yet.

– Are they taking too long to get to the CRUNCH of the PLOT?

– Cas is the leader of an Army when the angels crashed to earth we were promised mayhem and chaos, and even death and we never got it.

– Did it make any sense for those angels to choose Cas as their leader?

– Angels keep gathering behind idiots that don’t seem to have a plan beyond ‘I want to be the king of Heaven’? – Season 6 mark 2

– Does the moment the episode naturally stop when the story shifts over to Cas?

– Does Jeremy seem to be keeping characters apart? I.E Cas and the Winchesters. As they rarely appear to be on screen as much as they used too. It’s been this way for several seasons now.

– The more interesting story lines such as Abaddon and the Mark of Cain, have been shelved or have appeared to have little progress throughout the season until the finale draws closer.

– Dean new that Sam would have rather died, than cause all this destruction and disruption. That is now happening.

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–  Sam only walked away from Dean after he saw Kevin leave the bunker with his mum. We don’t know how Sam feels when he walked away, only he does. But could have been one of three things.

–  A) Overwhelmed by the moment

–  B) He was tired and wanted to go to bed

– C) Or he was angry at Dean and wanted to leave the room. It depends on what brother you lean towards as to how you interoperate that end scene. Remember that Dean called out for Sam, and Sam came running in a state of anxiety.

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20 thoughts on “This seasons moans and groans.

  1. Meg’s vessel strangely came from the city I live in as for this season it’s going down hill I hope it picks up soon what ever happened to Gabriel we saw him in the background of the episode French Mistake but maybe Balthazar just put someone that looked like him in there.
    It was Balthazar who was in the French Mistake. Gabriel hasn’t been in since I think s6. There was talk at the conventions of him coming back. But may have been a myth that never went any where. I no Jensen in particular wanted him back.

    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. no gabriel was in the french mistake i think…..
      i found a forum with people who also think the same and it has picture which is pixelated he popped his head in for like a second then he was gone

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  2. After watching last nights episode, I think the central story line concerning the brothers’ relationship is moving forward in a positive direction. Dean was able to see the problems with his relationship with Sam through another pair of eyes (so to speak). Yesterday, I watched an episode from season 7 where Dean was on trial for his guilty conscience. At the end of the episode, Dean asked Sam how did he escape going on trial himself. Sam stated that he did not feel guilty anymore; he had tried to make things right; had gone to hell and was suffering from hallucinations of Lucifer. I bring this up because I do not understand Sam of season 9 at all. With all his history with Dean, how could he not know that Dean would have done anything to save Sam. The writers are not incorporating the first 7 years of character history and where the characters SHOULD be based on that history. Sam should not be so pissed off at this point. If Dean shoved his wretched soul back into his resurrected body against Sam’s wishes, against Castiel’s judgement and Crowley’s concern, why would Sam think that angel possession to heal his body would go against his wishes. Sam stopped the trials on his own volition. Dean begged him to stop, but Sam could have continued if he wanted. Again, I do not understand why Sam is so angry with Dean for saving his life.
    Sam is pissed with Dean because of the supernatural deals he continues to make. He even asked Death not to allow Dean or anyone bring him back. He wanted to stay dead. Dean in the past has continued to make deals and Sam has also made the point about saving lives. Sam wanted to die and because Dean brought him back this has upset the natural order so Kevin died in his place. Did Dean learn his lesson from season 6 when he was Death for a day in appointment in Samarra. No he hasn’t, clearly not. Sam has been written differently in seasons 7 and 8 but I think JC has thought about this and is I reckon trying to redeem Sam. We all wanted Sam to save Dean from Purgatory and we didn’t get what we wanted, we had to suffer Amelia instead. This season I am sure Sam will save Dean from the MoC.

    I disagree that the demons were not scary during seasons 1 and 2. Castiel was scary when he first appeared on the show. But since this is TV, the characters have been watered down to make them more likable.
    This is true, and take this on board. But I think the demons were scarier in the early days. Look at Azazel, Alistair and even Lilith in Ruby was scary.

    Kevin is not supposed to be a ghost. His soul is running around only because heaven is closed. So perhaps he is not a vengeful spirit because he had no choice in whether to stay tethered to earth or go on to heaven like the other ghosts that have appeared on the show.
    Its an unusual situation for him to be in, and ghosts in general. I don’t think they will go that vengeful as you say its just his soul that is running around.

    The MOC is probably going to be featured during next season. Just like Kripke had 3 years to set up Dean going to hell, his resurrection, and his selection as Micheal’s vessel, Sam’s demon blood addiction, Lucifer’s release from hell, Sam’s selection as Lucifer’s vessel, his redemption during his sacrifice and fall to hell with the central theme being free will, Carver is setting up a similar arc. This time the central theme is forgiveness and letting go. Even with all the plot holes and character under utilization, I trust Carver and company to wrap this arc in a magnificent manner. Supernatural is the best TV show on right now and I grow to love it more each day.
    So the theme of the arc this season is forgiveness, I’d not worked that out yet. Good point!! I just so want to see the MOC develop now I’ve been so waiting for this story to kick in. Where it will end, and what damage it will cause to the boys. I worry about Dean, where he is heading and how he will get rid of that mark, will Sam have to cut it out of him errrh!!

    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. “Kevin is not supposed to be a ghost. His soul is running around only because heaven is closed. So perhaps he is not a vengeful spirit because he had no choice in whether to stay tethered to earth or go on to heaven like the other ghosts that have appeared on the show”
      I agree!

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    2. I don’t know. I still see what Sam is unforgiving and not trusting Dean about and it is not the saving him part, but the gas lighting and lying that went on for months afterwards.

      A lot of people think it’s about Dean not respecting his decision but I don’t see it that way because ,yeah Sam was deceived but he still CHOSE to live when given the chance.

      Sam thought he was broken or crazy and Dean let him go on thinking this, the whole time knowing what’s actually wrong which is especially awful when you consider that in season eight, Sam thought he was cleansed of the demon blood. In Dog Dean Afternoon, you could hear his despair that he would never be normal, and Dean allowed him to think this for some time. I find that especially upsetting but then I also think I’m in the minority about why Sam is angry.

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      1. “I don’t know. I still see what Sam is unforgiving and not trusting Dean about and it is not the saving him part, but the gas lighting and lying that went on for months afterwards. ”
        I wish that was the case. I could stand behind that reason but the writers are dragging in the trials and thats just not Deans fault.

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        1. Jenks: where from that goofy picture of Dean? It’s hilarious. Like he’s right in the middle of snarking off to someone.

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  3. The angels were never angelic as in good guys- see Michael,UrielRafael. They always were soldiers following orders, seeking leadership and finding leaders who had lost sight of the mission to protect humanity. Lucifer had his own thoughts and that got him a cage.The demons are in the middle of a corporate restructure. The new structure offered by Crowley has them confused. The demon in the storage facility voices the frustration of being held back from killing and possessing- being a demon. And the monsters all seem to have family ties and family issues as well. So it really is expansion on prior seasons. The season usually speeds up after 15th episode. Still think writing is strong mostly.

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  4. There is much disjunction in the season which I think mirrors the dysfunction between the brothers. There are multiple story lines so characters are set apart-thinking they will collide in final episodes. Cas chose leadership and messed it up last time- has he learned a lesson? It is all about learning lessons. Revisit Chuck’s ending in season5. What are the lessons learned. Secondary players are being written out faster than I can follow: Charlie, Garth, there is a purge.
    Don’t forget little old Kev!! I hope there is a real reason behind characters breaking up, as Sam and Dean are not alone. What’s happened to Dean and Cas these days. There not such bossum buddies any longer. Now look at the ghost-facers, they’ve split. Is this the tone for the season. The only two to get back together are Kevin and his mum. Yes its all about lessons, but has Dean learnt his lesson this time about making supernatural deals?

    Main players are on journey, lessons not yet learned. And some that have been. Isolation is a newer thread. Sam still has humor and heart but has a wall up against Dean that is huge. Sam should not “get over it” so easily. Poor man has been through so much- this possession is as close to a full on assault of mind and body. His hesitation at his bedroom door is a “pregnant pause” full of drama and interpretation. He purged his hurt, but is not ready to resolve it. When Sam started to hallucinate Lucifer, even though he is not up to it, he goes to help Dean b/c he doesn’t want his brother out there alone- so he forgives Dean’s decision of pushing the soul back in and its consequences-season 6.
    This is what I mean, many Dean fans think that Sam doesn’t love Dean any longer. But I don’t by this. I find that Sam has every right to be angry and bitter about this possession as so many things were bad about it, from start to finish. But do the writers really need to drag it out thus far. The effects for the sake of drama have been wonderful to watch, but what’s the story telling really trying to tell us. Was Sam raped? He had his choice taken away from him and felt the betrayal was hard to bare and sympathize with him whole heartedly. I really want the writers to show us that Sam does care about Dean. This team of writers are finding it hard to show us that Sam does care, when we know he does.

    Sam’s turmoil at not making his own decisions, what is his survival worth, and caring for himself are a barrier to listening to Dean. He talks (barks) at him but doesn’t listen. His critical snarky comments and looks of disapproval are obvious. Each episode has so many layers that allude back to central themes or issues that they are really not filler, but bits and pieces of a larger puzzle within the format of MOW. Pacing issues within episodes bothers me more. Build up to season 9 finale but I see a lot of monster family stories to support the spin off; Garth, Pishtako, Kevin+Mom, angel family disputes. Can’t have two masters, so that might account for the direction of this season. The writing is clever in that it reflects the larger picture but is harder to find with the distractions of MOW issues: it is Carver who is steering the ship to the spin off and there is where I wonder if our brothers are getting short sheeted a bit. So far, season 9 has some great “feels” and some off shoots that take work to be connected to the main arcs- but if you work at it you find the central themes permeate what seem to be fillers. Up to this point. 9.14
    But does Sam want to make that effort to talk to Dean. Is he being stubborn again, and not letting Dean in, but why, what’s stopping him. I just feel we’ve had more fillers this season than normal. The Mythology hasn’t really gone any where. The pacing is slow and drawn out your right.

    Love Aunty B xxx

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  5. What are the writers doing? Yes, well stated, the angels aren’t angelic, the demons aren’t demonic, both stale. Was Kevin really a ghost or an actor standing about flickering in and out with a bad T V signal? Then there is the Mark of Cain none event. If these 3 last shows were presented as a college term paper for Drama they would be given a D grade for amateur effort.
    Hi Southeast, welcome to the blog. Again great to see a new face. I am tired of the angels and demons now. I would love to see a new monster come in. One that stays around long enough. We need an injection of new hybrid monsters. Kevin’s an actor playing a ghost, isn’t he? The Mark of Cain is driving me nuts that there not really pursuing it enough. Some stories they over do it, and others they don’t flesh out enough.

    Strong performance for Dean, Sam and Mrs. Tran. However, the sit up seems more suitable for a high school play. How does Jr. Demon get the drop on Hunter Dean? Is it Dean amateur night? Is turning his back in a strange location, knowing murder is about and kidnappers are afoot a result of depression or sloppy writing? Did Dean seem to care when the demon cut a slice down his throat? Am I grasping for story line in character development?
    The MoC is affecting Dean in many ways emotionally. So this could be a reason why he appeared not to care. There are already signs of strange things with Dean, like the fast knife throwing and this week killing the human. Which appears way OOC, and have not seen the episode yet.

    After Kevin told the brothers to shape up they back down into the mire taking their audience with them. Are we in for another episode of the same?
    I have a feeling this feud may carry onto the end of the season, they may get back slightly sooner but this is my guess. They really are dragging this feud out.

    Love Aunty B xxx

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  6. Bella you know I love you but this sounds like “the gripe report” which I am not a fan of. The people involved with producing Supernatural work very hard to bring a quality product to us every week, and yes I still feel it is quality. I think the show has changed, which is to be expected over 9 yrs and 3 show-runners. Its changed for both worse and for better.
    Thanks Barb, you know I love you too 😉 Its partly from a gripe thread, yes but from other sources too. I did hunt around for comments on other forums. Many felt the same about those questions and they weren’t randomly picked out either. I think the quality comes and goes. I think there are a run of great, strong episodes and then we get stacks of fillers which don’t go any where and move the story along. I think that’s been the problem having too many show runners. I do agree it has changed direction maybe not for the better in some cases.

    I feel that we all OVER THINK the episodes. I enjoy the show most watching with my husband who watches and says good episode this week and that’s it. He doesn’t: “see” any of these problems at all. Sometimes I wish I didn’t know every canon and rule lol
    Very true!! Your so lucky that you have someone to share the show with. The only comfort I have is the forum and this blog. You girls have kept me going. I am finding if I get too stuck into the canon side I loose the plot of the story telling. Okay on re-watch when you’ve picked up on the episode. But first watch I just enjoy the ride and go with that flow.

    A lot of things have happened on the show that upset me this year, BUT that’s the story they want to tell! I will wait for it to pan out and I am sure by the end of the year I will be content with the outcome. Hey, if they wrote exactly what I wanted I’d never be surprised would I?
    This is the problem sometimes that it takes ages to get to the crunch of the story. The mythology is what drives this show, and this season its few and far between. I yearn for the mythology to be good and sometimes its not so great as its been in the past. Episode 23 will be our reveal all episode, granted but we have weeks to wait. I hope its worth it and brings it all together and not be a race to get to the finish line. Or will it drag out into season 10

    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. I agree, barb. This does sound like a lot of nit-picking to me. I prefer your husband’s response to the show. I try really hard while the season is live, to take each episode as a god or bad episode. When the season is over, I then weigh in on how the overall season “felt” to me. I do like this season based on individual episodes,though.

      My biggest gripe is that I wish whatever story they are trying to tell would move a little faster. But mostly because the story is compelling and I’m very impatient.

      But guess what?… I wish that every season. I base my idea of a good season on -was the storyline coherent and compelling, was the brother bond well depicted ( believe it or not, it’s actually been well depicted this season) and do I have a least two or three top favorites in a season. I liked the Gadreel storyline and I already have three favorite episodes from right at the beginning of the season.

      The middle of the season is always horribly slow to me and I’m ready for the writers to get on with it. But at least they’re offering interesting little tidbits like Crowleys addiction, the MoC, and all of Heaven is now closed. Carver said he had a three season arc, and we are only in the middle of this arc, so I must be patient. About half the things that have been introduced won’t finish playing out til next season.

      The show has aired for nine years and is still going strong and getting recognition. I didn’t expect it to last even three years because networks hate genre shows. Hell, Buffy only lasted seven and Angel lasted only five.) Over nine years, the writers have tried really hard to be inventive and still offer what we originally watched the show for. The show is still picking up new fans too. I call that a win.

      Is it as scary as in the beginning? Maybe not but the show five years ago had the benefit of still being new and capable of surprising us a lot more often. It’s not as scary as the first season but I watch the show for a lot of other reasons besides scary, like the characters. I think we all do. And you know ? it may not be scary but the show is still capable of surprising me “at least ” a couple of times per season ( the MoC, for example). That’s a win for me too.

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      1. Oh and for the record, I NEVER thought the demons were scary. Never!
        And The Angels were always dicks, even Castiel, when he was first introduced, was unlikeable and threatening to Dean.

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      2. “My biggest gripe is that I wish whatever story they are trying to tell would move a little faster. But mostly because the story is compelling and I’m very impatient.
        But guess what?… I wish that every season.”
        I agree!

        I so agree with this it drives me loopy. The pacing can be a bit drawn out. I keep thinking how many episodes now before they finally get to the nitty gritty of the matter.

        Love Aunty B xxx

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  7. “Did it make any sense for those angels to choose Cas as their leader?”
    I think some angels are open to forgiveness. And as usual they all seem to be helpless without following some kind of orders. So Cas showing that he can be merciful and truthfully it would only make sense that some angels form an “army” with Cas as the lead to take down Metatron. At least to me, it makes sense.

    I guess your right about taking down Metatron, it seems realistic that Cas would want this revenge and find ways to get his own back. Cas is one of those angels who knows when he’s done wrong and finds forgiveness. The angels are a pretty mixed bunch in this regard.

    “Do we see a season which is having problems of over abundance of muddled stories that are going nowhere? There is NO fluidity nothing is joining – gelling together as one fluid arc or seasonal arc yet.”
    You’re right this season does seem a bit clunky as if they’re having trouble getting to the main point. But I like to think that the reason there is no fluidity is because it’s back to the brothers fighting. There is a rift between them and so nothing is going to make sense or seem right.

    Again it could be the brother fighting that is causing this wired feeling. But saying this even early seasons especially season 6 felt this way too. Maybe once again we will have a race to get to the finishing line to see it all pan out or lead into season 10. Even if the brothers are fighting I’d expect there to be better fluidity than what were seeing right now.

    “Is this season feeling like one big filler?
    It obviously has to lead up to something in the episodes after this one. I know it’s episode 14 so there should be a sign of that CRUNCH you refer to, but if this season were one big filler then there would be no season 10. There must be something that happens…and perhaps this Mark of Cain that Dean has will have no effects in this season as of yet…because I doubt if they can cram in taking down Metatron and Abbadon in this season alone.
    “Are there structural severe problems within the show itself? Has the quality of the writing dropped?’

    But the Mark of Cain is part of taking down Abaddon. He needs the mark and the blade to take her out. This was the whole point of Dean being worthy and Cain accepting him with the mark. Its all been set up for this reason so Dean can take Abaddon out. Unless as you say they might be dragging it out into season 10 which has been speculated already.

    And while it may be disjointed I do not think the quality of writing has dropped. They are still writing the show true to characters, but I think it might prove difficult with them because they have written in a fight between the brothers and if the Mark of Cain does put one in isolation then perhaps that causes issues too? Dean is going to be pulled away by a supernatural force, not just Sam pushing him away. Or vice versa.
    “- C) Or he was angry at Dean and wanted to leave the room. It depends on what brother you lean towards as to how you interoperate that end scene. Remember that Dean called out for Sam, and Sam came running in a state of anxiety.”

    This is what I am hoping that the Mark is causing issues between them that their not just fighting for a reason, that it is connected. I know I always love a supernatural answer to any quest, but this time it might just happen. Occasionally I do sometimes feel it has dropped particularly since we lost the likes of Edlund who was a genius in my eyes a bit wacky but he knew how to writer Supernatural. The writers we have now are good, but not up to his par.

    I think Sam is having trouble forgiving Dean for yet again lying to him. Yes, Sam has went down terrible roads in the past, but I like to think that each of the brothers has their weaknesses/sins and then they have their good qualities, you know? And I’d like to tie in with this: “Many fans think that Sam is scared of being alone without Dean as vice versa. Both save each other when they know they have too. As both are charged up, scared stiff that something has happened to the other. Their biggest fear is being alone, and having to cope without the other. Is Sam reflecting his own thoughts to Dean, is this what Sam is really scared of too. Sam was lost, and had a breakdown when Dean was in Purgatory and in Mystery Spot. As we saw he went to pieces.”
    I know this is one of the points I do actually agree with. I think they are both scared of being alone without one another. Its a horrible situation to think about. We’ve seen them so often save one another like it comes automatic to them. I think Sam saying those words couldn’t have come at a better time. It needed to be said. He knew Dean was going to be alone which was why he asked Death to make it possible so he couldn’t be bought back by supernatural means. Sam was thinking about Dean in all this, as much as many don’t want to see it. Its like a mirror looking back at each other. They are both afraid of the same thing, being alone.

    I think before Sam was afraid of being alone and without Dean. That was at a time when they were closely connected and plus, if I may add Sam didn’t want to lose Dean any earlier than he had to. Dean was going to Hell after all so anything disrupting or trying to take him early was not going to happen. Sam would’ve found ways to get Dean back [and he ends up killing the demon who made the deal for Dean’s soul], but Dean figured he’d only do the same for him and end up dead again [irony much? Sam would’ve stayed dead, which to me only illuminates the S9 situation. Sam wanted to die at the end of s8, in s2 it was a bit of bad luck or something]…but anyway, Dean wouldn’t let him do anything about the Hell situation. But then over time I think Sam began to feel very disappointed in himself for disappointing Dean [starting S4 and on; of course S6 he could blame it all on his soulless self, but still]…Sam felt guilty for letting Dean down and Dean always treats him like a child when Sam is perfectly capable and strong as an ox to take on just about anything; he yearned for independence, but what can he do with it? After s8, he was completely alone and I think he had no idea what to do. Sam is like a walking contradiction to me, he wants independence and to make Dean proud, but has trouble making decisions on his own [or there’s someone always there to manipulate him, even Dean sometimes].
    I know its like he’s always been tied to something and can’t break free from it. I still don’t think that Sam wanted to die. He knew those trials would probably kill him any way. I think he’d had enough and he prepared himself to die. He is a troubled soul any way, and saw this as his way out. I still can’t believe that Sam wanted to DIE! It doesn’t make any sense. Was he mixed up in his own mind that he didn’t know what he really wanted out of life? Was he so worn down that he wanted the hospital plug to be taken away from him so he could die? We don’t really know. But I think he had battled with his own conscience and was mad at Dean for bringing him back. As in Season 8 he wanted to show Dean the light, then in season 9 he desperately wants out and to die peacefully, it still doesn’t make sense as it was Dean who saw it as a suicide mission.

    Okay, I think I answered the questions that popped out at me. ;} It’s a long response!
    Cheers, thank you. I thought some of the info I found might make an interesting discussion.

    Love Aunty B xxx

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