Could Cain be something else?

I found something interesting on IMDb which sparked my imagination and wanted to share with you guys.

Cain appears very different and the thread thought could Cain be a Dark Angel? Could he be in a class all by himself, immortal?

Could it be possible about Cain being a Dark Angel. It actually could be highly possible and all the demons just for some reason can’t really tell maybe cause the true form is a bit similar when looking at it. Also I read on the Supernatural wiki citing the Essential Supernatural Alistair was possibly the first Demon ever created. So Lucifer created a Dark Angel but since the person did it out of love it for whatever reason didn’t piss God off enough as turning Lilith into a Demon and that’s what got Lucy locked up in that fiery pit. So there could be a season on Dark Angels…..(there’s a pun somewhere in this) and explore their nature and maybe even angel-demon hybrids and hybrids of other beings.

Some are thinking that Cain could be like Sam Hain,  (only with his own body) a very special type of demon, he’s probably meant to be Lucifer’s champion, just as Alistair was Lucifer’s torturer, Azazel was Lucifer’s General, Sam Hain was probably something like Lucifer’s beast master and Lilith was Lucifer’s jail breaker.

Could this be leading to Dean becoming a Dark Angel? One of a kind, a unique specimen, who could live for ever? Is this the burden that Cain was pushing on Dean that he was warning Dean about? Cain was most pushy and insistent that Dean was made aware of those bitter consequences that there were repercussions down the line.

Any thoughts on this un-heard of breed of Dark Angel, has anything been mentioned in the past about this mysterious creature maybe lurking in our midst wanting to break free and into our mythology. Is it something we want Dean to become. If Dean’s path was meant to be angelic all along would this surprise any of us considering he’s Michael’s true vessel? Sam this season has also had connections with an angel could this be perfect symmetry? I find I still can’t get what Cain said out of my head, and that he wouldn’t have said this lightly, without a care in the world. He meant what he said, and Dean took it hook, line and sinker. So what else do you think Cain meant. Who is Cain really? Could he too be lying like Gadreel did? He shows a thick skin that can’t easily be broken but so easily gave his curse away with a literal warning. But what key does that warning really hold.

 

 

 

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16 thoughts on “Could Cain be something else?

  1. The Bones that Cas burned in Season 6, Caged Heat were NOT Crowley’s. Cas was working together with Crowley to get all the monster/human souls in purgatory, They were working together; so Cas could stop Raphael from opening the cage and letting both Luci and Michael out and in the hopes of them starting up the apocalypse again. As a added bonus with the power the souls would give Cas he could gain the upper hand against Raphael and over throw him. Also he was hoping to stop the angel Civil War going on in Heaven, since Michael wan’t there to keep the Angels under strict control; at least that was his reasoning at the time.
    I totally agree! That whole plot about the souls was a right mix up, it felt so far fetched, and that Cas could be so gullible to trust Crowley of all people. I was really surprised in Cas how stupid he was.

    Cowley wanted to reign in Hell as the King, and for sure didn’t want Luci out. With Luci gaining full control of Hell once again, things would be worse for all Demon kind, and Crowley was #1 on Luci’s fecal list; for sure Crowley would be dead within 10 seconds of Luci’s release. Remember Crowley has helped the boys several times, first time he gave them the Colt and extra bullets, knowing full well he would be hunted down for betraying Luci. When the Colt didn’t work, the second time he helped them, he gave them info so they could get all the horsemen rings to banish Luci to the inescapable cage. Again knowing Full well if this attempt failed by the Brothers he was done for and finished in Hell. He has stated several times to both boys that the only thing Luci hated more than humans, were All demons.
    In “Abandon All Hope” it was shown that Luci views held the Whole Demon race with contempt and only sees them as cannon fodder or a means to a end. He has stated he will destroy all Demons once he has eliminated humanity, and purified the Earth to it’s original Godly design, aka Eden. As he sees humanity as a plague that has defiled God’s beautiful world. In the episode “The End”, Luci states his fall was the result of refusing God’s decree to love humans more than him, his Father. As a result of his defiance, God had Michael cast him into hell. Ruby also said in “When the Levee Breaks” in defiance of God’s decree, and hoped for wrath, Luci turned Lilith into the very First Demon, BUT if we can take Cain’s word, I guess that means Cain was the Very First Demon, and not Lilith. since in the Bible and cannon Cain was ONLY the Third Human EVER on Earth; as he was the Firstborn to Adam and Eve. I’m confused…what do you think?? As Cain is immortal and looks to be in his late forty’s or early fifties, I guess it’s possible that the Chicken came before the egg in Demon kind… “/

    This is confusing who was the first demon. Cain is a Knight of hell which is higher up the demon chain as far as rank goes. So what position puts him in is difficult to say. There were also five Knights of hell. As Abaddon was the only survivor and her days are numbered and Cain wants out of it. So will this leave Dean a Knight of Hell? I think that Lucifer had a rough time of it, and I think God was particularly hard on him as Luci felt that God thought more of humans than he did of his own kind, and himself. He found that hard to get his head around and that angered Luci so much. And I can see why. By the way I thought Jared rocked in that scene he was awesome. But I think Lilith remains the original Luci created her as we know, this is what I see as true canon.

    In Cannon Crowley was the Let. General of the Crossroads demons. Supposedly Crowley was only second to Lilith in the hierarchy of Demon kind, even Abaddon was beneath Crowley. So I guess that means the demon order would go Cain, Lilith and Crowley?? Or was it Lilith, Cain and Crowley?? IDK?? Originally Crowley was a Scotsman named Fergus MacLeod, and was turned Demon sometime after his mortal death, in the 17th Century. Since he has hidden his human remains, Cas gave him back his bones; he can not be killed by burning. So for clarification I guess that means Crowley is the Second/Third made demon, and became The First in Hell when Cain went Awol and Lilith and all her minions were killed. I assume the throne in Hell comes with added perks and powers to whomever sits upon it. That’s the reason why Abaddon is mining souls to convert a large and loyal {Only to Her} demon army to over throw Crowley. Also…
    I still have a feeling its Lilith, Cain and Crowley not the other way around? That’s actually a clever thought, well done!! Why didn’t I think of this? It would make perfect sense that the souls are fuel and many souls as Balti I think said are very valuable on the open market. Its strange how the souls story has come back again since season 6. I wonder why they decided to re-invent it again? It is a clever thought.

    In this season; episode “Road Trip,” It’s seen that Crowley in his Physical Demon Form is a Electrical Dark Red Smoke, not the cloudy pitch black smoke, which was the typical form of Demons I have seen. Black Smoke is the form of ALL demons seen, including Lilith, Azazel, Alastair, Meg, Ruby and even Abaddon. Crowley is the only demon I have ever seen in a different colored corporal form.
    I still wonder why it took the writers so long to tell us what colour eyes Crowley had, even Mark teased this for ages you’ve not seen Crowley’s true eye colour yet. But if he is something more how are they going to magic this red smoke and eyes away? This is really bugging me now. I also wonder if Abaddon’s is more than Black, considering her realm in the pecking order of rank? She is something special after all not just your bog standard demon.

    The only thing I have seen different on demons is eyes; there was the Yellow eye’s of Azazel and the White eyes that Lilith had…I have only seen Black eyes otherwise. I wonder what color Crowley’s eyes are now? White, Black, or Red?? Kinda thinking about it I haven’t ever seen Crowley’s eye’s turn? Have you guys??
    I vaguely remember seeing his red eyes. Also I remember crossroads demons have red eyes.

    Cain is not a hybrid or Dark Angel…he was Marked by Luci as his five star General of his Army or Knights. But IMHO. God punished Cain too, I believe he made him immortal and also banished him from Eden {Earth} for murdering Abel. I also think Cain has all his powers still… he may have passed on his sigel to Dean, but not his powers. The Mark is what powers the blade, without the Mark the blade is useless.
    So in this case what powers has Dean really got? If this is the case, I thought if Dean had the mark transferred to him, he would have lock, stock and barrel the whole lot. So what is powering the mark, if he has no powers from Cain?

    Also I think the heavy burden Cain was talking about was more like a drug addiction to the Blade, it’s an addiction to the feel of the blade in hand. Dean is seen physically aching, his hand trembles and he keeps hearing Magnus telling him it get’s easier and easier each time he holds it. Like he’s getting severe withdrawals from not holding it.. like a heroin addict. Which is a good way of looking at it.. like a addict Dean is seen with tremors, he’s not eating, or sleeping and he’s drinking very heavily again. Also he’s short tempered, bitchy, snippy and downright Mean at times. Like he’s turning Cold Blooded. Another is he’s also more vengeful and when he killed the busboy he didn’t even seem phased at the almost inhuman way he dispatched him by slitting his throat.. his eye’s were just COLD. And Sam noticed it too..it bothered him as much as it did me just writing it. IDK…food for thought..what do you all think??
    I think we learnt early on that it would mean trouble for Dean, that he just road in there and took on the mark without any real attention to the burden. He was oblivious to the consequences. I wonder if he would have taken it on if Sam had been there. Would Sam have let Dean ride on in there without a care in the world, for his own safety. I can’t believe how stupid he was, not to even question it and research it. No hesitation, shot first ask later style again. Dean certainly is fearless when it came to risking everything just to kill Abaddon. I just keep thinking what’s gonna happen when he does kill her. What happens to the mark when he does kill her. Cain wants Dean to come back and kill him, so what happens to Dean and the burden of the Mark then? Will Dean become immortal? And loose his humanity for ever?

    Love Aunty xxxx

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    1. I think you’ve got something there. But there’s all kinds of things on the show that are changed Biblical lore. Biblical lore had it that Lilith was created before Eve as a wife for Adam. So she would have been the second human being on Earth and Eve the third and Cain the fourth. Lilith would have been the first demon then, which explains why she was the key to Lucifer’s cage, later. I wonder what Lucifer did to get sent to the cage then as he was still walking about freely after having done that and corrupted Adam and Eve in the Garden after and then Cain and Abel.
      The mind boggles. Lucifer must have done something pretty drastic and so bad that it made God so angry to put him there in the first place. But what could be so heinous that God found so bad that he had to lock his own son up. Was it something to do with Earth. Was it wanting to blow up Earth or kill humans which were Gods creation. It would have bee something so drastic. It also appears like it runs in the family.

      I’ve not seen Crowley’s eyes and can’t recall an instance when we were shown their color. So that’s another interesting detail. The Big Book of Supernatural has a complete roster of demon eye colors but I expect, like all crossroads demons, his eyes are red. Also what I meant about Crowley is, was he a demon before Fergus and was Fergus just a meat suit taken over by a demon named Crowley who eventually fathered a son? Okay let’s just admit Crowley is confusing and his story is just all over the place. His meat suit now is some guy from New York or so he says and there is that odd statement he made to Naomi about Mesopotamia. What did that mean? That he’s older than the 17th century?
      Yes you have. I think it was in the Auction episode where he takes Mrs Tran’s meat suit and when he escapes her we see his eyes and red smoke. I don’t think they’ve let much slip about Crowley as all we appear to know was that he was a Tailor. That is Fergus, was.

      You’re right! Dean is being irritable and shakes, just like an addict. I mean, I knew he was jonesing for the Blade because of the shakes, but didn’t connect that with how snippy he’s been. Yeah, when he mechanically overpowered that busboy with his own knife was a chilling moment for me, too. I remember thinking I was watching the Mark at work right then. (He turned into the Terminator.) I do get the distinct impression that he hasn’t slept since he got the Mark in First Born, though. I hope that’s not the case as that’s a scary, soulless kind of thing.
      He’s been really mean to Sam as well, very snippy with him. When he answered the phone to him before the hiatus, he was moody and Sam said he could do with this help. In the bunker when he told Sam to go on his own. He really has been off, and distant. But this is the whole point, as this is the mark controlling him, and he’s not in full control of himself. So you being shocked is what its meant to do. Dean hasn’t slept I bet since he took on the mark. This is another reason why he gets easily agitated.

      Incidentally while Abaddon knows about the Blade, I don’t think she knows that Dean has the Mark or she would have tried harder to get that Blade. Or maybe she does know and that’s why she’s in hiding?
      No, good point, otherwise she would have been on his radar by now and set her demons onto him as a surprise. Its amazing its taken her so long to suss this out though. I thought she would have been more on the ball.

      And yeah even without the Blade, Cain has all the powers we saw in First Born so it’s the Mark that’s the power? Does this mean that Dean has these powers too? IDK!

      Its difficult to say. But I would have thought so. It wouldn’t surprise me if Abaddon turned up and Dean was without the blade, I bet he could be just as powerful as her.

      Well tonight we find out how Castiel will deal with it. I feel like Cas should instantly know something is wrong with Dean. And the rumor is that all of these things – Cas stolen grace, the Blade, the Mark, the fallen angels, Gadreel, Metatron, Abaddon, the whole shebang are all connected to each other in the finale. Or so rumor says.
      And you know what we only have seven weeks until the finale, with two MOTW’s after this one so it will be one hell of a race to get to the finish line again in time. I bet the pacing will be out and they will leave loose ends. I don’t want it to feel too rushed. I love my mythology, if its done well, but they can muck this up on occasion.

      Love Aunty xxxx

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      1. <>Also what I meant about Crowley is ,was he a demon before Fergus and was Fergus just a meat suit taken over by a demon named Crowley who eventually fathered a son? Okay let’s just admit Crowley is confusing and his story is just all over the place. His meat suit now is some guy from New York or so he says and There is that odd statement he made to Naomi about Mesopotamia. What did that mean? That he’s older than the 17th century?<>

        So let’s play what if…
        What if Crowley was a Demon that used the meat suit of Fergus. If that’s the case, why would he be worried about that particular Mortals’ Bones?? Was Fergus the Demons True Vessel?? In Canon Demons can use any human it so wished, they just take, they do not need the mortals permission to take possession or cohabitant.
        If he was a Demon before Fergus and was just Being made of Black smoke, and it TOOK Fergus’s body as a meat suit. Why is he really worried about those bones? As a Being that has the ability to trade bodies anytime he so wished, he shouldn’t have any ties to that particular body or it’s bones.

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        1. What do you make of Crowley smoking out of his current meat suit a few weeks back to get intel from the shady trader in the park of mysterious objects. His meat suit just stood there not moving. AND when he possessed Sam to kick out Gadreel- I feel a hole in the canon not yet filled. You? Dean still thinks Crowley is a “dick bag” based on the latest installation.

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    2. Crowley can be killed by burning his bones, but Cas lied about burning his bones and eventually Crowley took them back to hide them.

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      1. Yes blinderd8, technically Crowley can be killed by burning his Original Bones..but that’s not a real worry anymore. Since he’s stated, he’s Hidden them where no one would ever find them ever again; when Cas gave them back to him.

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  2. After the murder of Abel, Cain was marked so that anyone that met him would know he was being punished by God. Of course, since the SPN version is different from the Bible’s, I agree that his immortality is the greatest punishment. According to the Bible, Cain left to dwell in the land of Nod. Could Nod be Hell? I do not think that Cain is a demon; he is marked with the symbol and with immortality. Also, Sam is not a demon hybrid like Jesse. Jesse was born from a woman possessed by a demon and had a God like abilities. Sam is/was psychic and could kill demons after ingesting demon blood. He had none of the powers that Jesse possessed.
    I agree with you I think Cain isn’t a demon, many say he is a demon? Who’s correct! I think your right again, Nod could well be hell, it figures in the grand scheme of things. Jesse and Sam are very different this is true Jesse was born with his power and Sam wasn’t. But even some doubt this now that Sam was born with it all along, as Ruby said S4.

    But I always thought that the mark was a gift from God to protect him, or have I read this wrong, it was from Wiki. I think about Dean and what the burden is I wonder he immortality is the burden, that he will live for ever? From memory there I think your right. Been a while since I’ve watched the episode to be sure.
    Yes, it is canon that Crowley was born human. That is why he was the third trial: to cure a demon. But for Dean’s interruption of that trial, Crowley would be human again.
    Of course, that fits perfectly. Why didn’t I think this!!! But even with all that human blood he’s taking now he’s still the same, he’s still got the same powers which haven’t so far been affected. So if he is more human why are these not as strong as they first were?

    But all the blood is doing is making him high, its not reverting him totally back to who he once was, as he still has his powers. He still operates as a demon, so nothing has really changed that he just a junkie as he said himself. Cas went the whole hog, lost the lot powers and all. He was totally human. But Crowley is totally different and off his head on human blood. So how human is Crowley really? If he is at all, once he cracks the addiction like Sam did he won’t be any different?

    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. And Abaddon would have complete control over hell and its demons. And we would not have such a character to love to hate. He is a bit of a mix.

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    2. Cain was marked so that others would not harm him for the murder of Abel. The human population was still small so I am pretty sure that everybody knew of Cain’s actions against Abel. If Dean keeps the MoC then he will probably become immortal but unless Sam is made immortal as well, I don’t think the writers will allow Dean to remain that way.

      Crowley has human-ish qualities because of the incomplete trial. Had Sam completed the trial, Crowley would be human. It is unclear whether Abbadon is a fallen angel or a demon of a higher order. Since she was originally selected as the third trial, she must be a human born demon since you cannot cure an angel. Unless the writers flubbed, again! Based on what I have observed, demons have a hierarchy since Abbadon is miffed that a common crossroads demon is now the king of hell. Based on the hierarchy, the demons have special powers. Azazel, Lilith and Abbadon are the only demons that I have seen on the show that can do more than smoke in and out. Crowley can pop in and out like Castiel but perhaps he has that ability because of his status.

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  3. Dean being a dark angel would be a tv insider’s pun since I believe he worked on a show with that name. Although Supernatural always has the possibility of a character having more than one purpose, maybe this time, it is what it is. Cain protected his brother at great personal cost and became Lucifer’s general of the Knights of Hell. The symmetry of the brother protection route fits. Lucy is in the cage, If Abaddon is ganked, who will “lead her army” of souless humans? I can’t believe Dean would go over to the demon camp, then Sam would have to kill him or save him. Now where have I heard that line before?
    Cain was born human, so he can’t be a hybrid. He is currently immortal so does that make him a demon, a corrupted soul,( who are not immortal) or just a powerful tool of Lucifer’s who has tried to not engage in his destiny- What would Dean say about destiny?
    Cain has been immortal and that has been a difficult burden for him to carry. Was that trait transferred to Dean is my question. I think the writers left a lot of the Cain details vague on purpose so that they could be developed if they need to do so. If all of the threads are completed in the next 6 episodes, I would be surprised as Carver has mentioned he has enough material for next season. Of course, the writers are so creative, one never knows.
    The writers have switched up the Cain story a bit though from the original. Cain killed Abel because God preferred Abel’s sacrifice over his own. The jealousy thread has not been picked up so far in the Supernatural version. Was Cain telling Dean the truth about why he killed his brother- to save him? Again, sacrifice, salvation, jealousy and death. Old Testament and SPN have much in common. Thanks for a thought provoking submission.

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  4. Hey Bella, I have given some lite spec before to the idea that some of these creatures we think of as demons might in fact be. The Fallen. Remember, Lucifer was not alone in his rebellion. He had lots of company when he literally fell – just like all of the Angels in Sacrifice. It would make sense that some of these demons, especially Azazel, Alistair were Angels once, although the lore says Lilith was the first corrupted human being and that was why God was angry and locked Lucy in the cage. At some point Lucifer was able to move about freely and probably made several demons before being caged. So the reason Lilith was the key to his cage is because she may have been the reason for his imprisonment in the first place. We’ve seen that they all have different powers and different levels of intimacy with Lucifer. Incidentally, this could also explain what Crowley is. Perhaps he was some lower order of Angel before his fall. I’m not a Biblical scholar so if anyone knows more about all this – feel free to correct.
    I knew it, I always had my doubts about Crowley, but how can they explain away the red eyes, and smoke? Does an dark angel become so corrupt once its fallen that it turns into a demon. The longer he is away from heaven the darker he goes. Just like Dean is at the moment. I did pick up this feeling too about those who followed Lucifer. Its an interesting concept. We were right in the end about Cas being much more than an angel, I wonder if he will get his original grace back? I just hope they spill the beans about Crowley as that makes him much more appealing. It also answers why he can teleport and other demons don’t.

    I don’t think Cain is one of the Fallen, though. He says pretty clearly that he was born human and had a family. But it’s possible that he could be some sort of human demon hybrid, like Sam and that little boy named Jesse Turner. So, we’ve seen hybrid creatures in the show before, but I do not think Cain is an Angel. It’s been pretty emphatically stated in Houses of the Holy that humans cannot become Angels. They can only become spirits or demons and Cain was definitely born human. That does not rule out that he might be a human/demon hybrid and that he really is wearing his original body and that Lucifer corrupted his soul and made him immortal. Since Lucifer is an Angel, he gave Cain powers similar to his own probably to amuse himself. Like Crowley, Cain can teleport but like Castiel, he can smite demons, but that doesn’t make him an Angel. Since Angels are pretty powerful and Lucifer was one of the most powerful he certainly could pass on some Angelic abilities to Cain, but that doesn’t make Cain an Angel or hybrid angel.
    I did wonder this like Sam he was tainted by a demon to become one. I do remember now. We do get hybrids of other creatures like the Djinn so its very possible. I also remember Cas being much strong over Crowley when he got his hands on the tablet. Crowley was scared of Cas, so may be Crowley doesn’t yet know his full strengths. What he’s capable of.

    Incidentally, Crowley could be an angel/demon hybrid. There’s nothing ruling that out. It would explain a lot about Crowley. He would have known rejection from the creatures he most wanted to be like, hence his cry of everyone wanting to be loved in Sacrifice and some of his attraction to the Winchesters. On some level he wants what the brothers have, a close relationship like nothing he’s ever experienced but has seen often among humans. It’s an interesting question.
    I had actually thought about this, that Crowley wants what the brothers have. It would explain why he’s always hanging around them like a bad smell. Maybe his human side is working over time and is feeling lonely. I was just about to say his cry to Sam in Sacrifice he’s definitely mellowed and appears to be engaging the brothers in a different way than he has in the past. It does make you wonder why Crowley hasn’t tried to out smart them and kill them off himself. But then he always finds some use out of them some where.

    Love Aunty B xxx

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    1. Crowley wants to be loved by his own admission. It is that very human need that has been sparked by his addiction. Now whether he is currently sincere about his humanity or it is a large manipulation is the question. He has been rebuked by both Winchesters and thus humanity so he should revert to snarky demon who has worked his way up the chain to become CEO of Hell. He does seem to understand humanity so well and that is what has made him a successful business man of souls- new wave vs old school.Abaddon-take what you want.
      Crowely’s origin- We know his mother was a witch and witches usually have sold their souls to a demon, so perhaps he does have some humanity in him already similar to the demon blood in Sam. His father could have been human or demon-We know Crowley had a son who perished at sea and who hated his father. He doesn’t always use demonic devices to achieve his goals, but spells-think back to season8-when he used spells to undo the Winchester’s saves. So Fergus Rodrick McLeod/ Crowley is a bit of a mystery, but effective as a foil for the boys.

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      1. Well, remember that Crowley had a son? Am I remembering incorrectly? Hmm I need yo go watch that episode again.. prolly be back after 😉 ciao!
        Hi Deb and welcome to the group, yes he did have a son as Debbab has explained above.

        Love Aunty B xxx

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        1. Crowley had a son who hated him intensely. Bobby summoned him to find out where Crowley/Fergus’ bones were buried in Scotland, so Bobby could use burning them as leverage to get his soul back from Crowley. I think the son was off spring prior to demonization of Crowley/McLeod. I believe Crowley is a more recent name change to suit the current meat suit of a literary agent and all around good dresser.

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          1. Okay, so Crowley once being human is canon then? I forgot about Bobby’s Weekend episode and the bone burning and the son. is it possible that Crowley was simply wearing Fergus as a meat-suit when he made him and that as a demon .he’s considerably older and the bones are, once again, ,just a ruse? Would that work?

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