What ‘unsavory’ things does Sam do?

I think from what I have been reading that we will have a headache between the fans going into season 10. It brings me back to Sam not looking for Dean and how all this turns around going into season 10. Sam didn’t look for Dean and Dean was upset of this fact that Sam didn’t even bother. This season when Dean is finally cured and Sam obviously succeeds in saving his brother, Dean apparently is upset about the things he did when he was a demon because this wasn’t him. So he feels he isn’t responsible for what Demon Dean got up to whilst painting the town red. But the coin flips this time that Dean isn’t upset about Sam not saving him, but how Sam goes about saving him. What lengths Sam goes to in order to get Dean back. So can Sam win? Sam is in the wrong for not saving him at the start of season 8 but now Dean is mad as a march hare for what Sam does in trying.

So what can we assume Sam does that really messes with Dean’s head so badly that he will presumably have a hard time in forgiving Sam. Once again these brothers will be at odds. The angst will feel just as bad, and just as severe as Sam was over Dean with the possession. Dean went into this with an open mind, he took on the Mark willingly and took on what came with it willingly. So now that Sam does try his best to save Dean, he is as mad as hell, why? Does he have the right to be mad when he took on the black magic himself? The writers really loving toying with us fans, thinking one minute this season the boys would finally be on the same page, and that it was long overdue. How wrong we us brothers fans that this ends up not being the case.

Plots are woven into this show to make us think and for obvious reasons add drama, as otherwise as I’ve said on many occasion it would be as boring as hell. But are the writers slowly running out of material and this is the best they can come up with having either brother at odds with each other alternating it each season thinking we hadn’t noticed. Will this make the division in the fandom even harder to bear, not knowing which side to bat for. Whether your a Dean fan, or Sam fan it will shatter us thinking what else can they conjure up to divide the boys even further down a dark disappearing hole. I love this show for the way in which the brothers survive and what they go through. But how much more can they physically take before either brother says I’ve had enough. After all the core behind this show is the brothers relationship and if this is damaged beyond repair then where does this leave the show?

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So how do you feel about by the looks of things that the blame may end up back at Sam’s door once again. Are the writers finding so hard to invent new stories that this is all we have to look forward to, the brothers constantly bickering and that all love at the end of the day is lost between them forever! I find it sad, that its resulting in yet another heartbreaking feud that won’t easily go away.

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32 thoughts on “What ‘unsavory’ things does Sam do?

  1. What goes comes around. Dean is still Dean as Sam was always Sam even with Ruby. I think this season is going to be more about acceptance of who the characters really are and that includes Crowley and Castiel. All are flawed characters-that’s what makes them interesting and more accepted by us. Perhaps this season is about acceptance of ourselves and others. Nobody gets a free pass. All suffer as a consequence of their choices. More later.
    I think JC said something along these lines too if I remember correctly. They both suffer its true. I wonder what story line Crowley will get. There were some new pics out today, and they think that DD might be doing some pole dancing, as it looks as though there out side a strip club, and Crowley is talking to DD. And it looks as though Baby is in a bad way 😦 She needs some lov’in from regular Dean!!

    http://marikamarika.tumblr.com/post/94336954147/new-photos-jensen-and- mark-10-season

    http://tikistitch.tumblr.com/post/94321647361/can-u-not-my-wayward-son -blackflowercrown-i

    Love Aunty B xxxx

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  2. I will have to wait and see as well. The only unforgivable thing Sam can do is to make another demon deal, but as Crowley said during the finale, that’s to be expected, so I am sure that won’t occur. Based on some of the fantastic fan fics I have read, SPN could take this show for another few years. The alternate universes that can be created or time travel, etc. This is a fantasy/ horror show so coming up with new material while keeping canon compliant shouldn’t be too hard. I remember when the TV show Angel spent @ 4 or 5 episodes in a demonic dimension and introduced a new character before returning to the “real” world. If the writers continually use the angst between the brothers as the central theme, then it will become trite and over exposed. Just like that never ending war in heaven which has been going on since season 6. They should return to the theme that made me a fan: two brothers kicking evil in the butt, that love each other to the point of self sacrifice. I like Castiel but those angels are boring. I loved Raphael, Zachariah, the snarky one from season six (I can’t think of his name) and Metatron. They were interesting but the ones from season 9 felt forced and I am beyond tired of the war in heaven.
    I agree with the deal, this has been thought about quite a bit. As you said Crowley told us it would be expected if Sam did. But you never no with these writers. I did like the feel of an alternate universe again this was talked of but never went any where during season 8 when we thought Sam wasn’t Sam, could something/someone interfered with him? This is what I am feeling all ready that they are treading over the same ground and not over thinking any think new to amaze us with. I know its hard for writers but I am as you tired of the angst, and this just put the nail in the coffin for me. I thought Dean wants him to save him, then when he does its like its still not good enough. Sam can’t win. I miss the old days, when they did joke with one another and yes I know they grow up, but once in a while do they have to be so serious with one another. Its like the stories are devised to cause tension.

    I agree that those fans that hate Sam will hate him no matter what. Dean is always written as the hero no matter that Sam went to hell to save the world. Dean went to hell to save Sam, see the difference? Dean willingly took on the MoC to kill Abaddon but Sam drinking demon blood to kill Lilith is too much for Dean to accept?! Puleeze! Dean always changing the natural order is just fine with the fandom but when Sam utters dissatisfaction with Dean controlling his life/death, that is just unforgivable. I am firmly Team Sam. I hate that the writers make him unsympathetic but I love the character. I love Dean too, but he is allowed to get away with everything because he is the great and powerful Dean Winchester!
    I agree with you there. He can never do any good, even when he does try his best. I know this is what I said in my findings, that Dean took on the mark willingly caused this upset and now turns it on its head. I still think they are polarized and they read into what they want to. Sam is bad and that’s all he will ever be. I am bi-bro but there are just times when I don’t think the stories are even stevens. Sam always appears to get the rough deal. Even Cas has done horrible things and he doesn’t get pulled up to the extent that Sam does. I do get mad sometimes and have to grip my teeth!!

    Love Aunty B xxxx

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    1. “he is allowed to get away with everything because he is the great and powerful Dean Winchester!”

      He doesnt get away with anything! He always ends up suffering even if its his own conscience that does it to him! IMHO

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      1. Dean always suffers and really never gets away with anything. Even as a young man, he always had a price to pay even if it was his own happiness. That’s why I am good with demondean being so care free….for a while. every action forces a reaction.

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    2. I see your point and mostly agree with it. The fandom is going to hate Sam no matter what he does but I do love the guy. I love Dean too and still believe he needs to pay the consequences for the decisions he makes, which he is doing. They both sometimes make awful decisions but the fandom only seems to see the bad decisions that Sam makes, which I think is pretty sad as he’s such a great character. I wish these people were more open minded regarding him.

      I’m going to be positive about this season and how it plays out bc I’m really tired of the brother angst and think they need to give it a rest for a while. I hope they do bc I just wanna see them fight other battles instead of with each other all the time.That clip of the two of them hunting each other in the Bunker just broke my heart, even though I know neither one of them really comes to harm. It was just awful seeing Dean’s demon eyes. I may not like to see that as much as I thought I would, even though it will make for some great episodes.

      Incidentally, who is this new guy they’re introducing this season named Cole? What’s that all about? I also heard rumors that Abel may be introduced since they can’t get the guy who played Cain to be on the show this season.
      Ikeke Cole is after Dean and hunting him down. But finds Sam instead. From what I’ve recently read they both fight. Whether he survives!! Abel I am curious about, as this wasn’t decided if he was coming into the story or not. This doesn’t bode well for Sam if they bring in Abel. Didn’t Abel die? Yikes!!

      Love Aunty B xxxx

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      1. “but the fandom only seems to see the bad decisions that Sam makes”
        Not on the IMDb boards-they were all over Dean for the Zeke thing. And Dean kicking Castiel out of the bunker got a lot of hate posts too.

        I disagree barb, sorry. IMDb is pro Dean, and anti Sam many threads really bash him. I find I can’t read them because they are so nasty. I don’t see why they don’t like him and say such horrible stuff sometimes. I feel he really is out on a limb at times.

        Love Aunty B xxxx

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        1. Oh, okay. I don’t frequent those boards too often as I thought it was just a home for Sam-haters and I don’t get that.
          I know you don’t Ikeke, this is the only one I tend to go on or the Winchester Family Business. I like reading what people have to say, but at times it can go over the top. Its upsetting to read.

          I wasn’t too upset about the Zeke thing as I knew that was something that was going to come back and bite Dean, but I was pretty upset about him kicking Castiel out of the bunker, though.
          Dean kicking Cas out wasn’t his decision it was forced on him by Zeke, he had no other choice as Zeke might hurt Sam if he didn’t follow his orders through. Dean was worried for Sam’s safety. It bothered me at first, but since understanding why I am okay with it.

          It is good though that the writers are having some follow through from season to season based on the decisions being made by the characters rather than just stuff happening to them. I do like how the plot rises out of the characters and their faulty logic or wild emotions, instead and that there’s consequences and follow through.
          I read in an interview today that JC said that the arc will involve the characters more this season rather than objects like it has done other seasons. So the mythology side I guess will be seeing to the MoC and how Sam disintegrates it. I like that the consequences follow through too, something happens and it needs to be tided up.

          Love Aunty B xxxx

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          1. But it really never did come back to bite Dean. Cas was all “oh you just cared too much and trusted the wrong person”. Sam got two sentences at the end of the season about seeing himself kill Kevin and that was the ONLY time we were allowed to see how Gadreel possessing Sam affected SAM. But we got episode after episode of how Sam DARING to be angry at Dean gave Dean a sad. Sam was raked over the coals for not immediately forgiving Dean and worrying about Dean’s feelings. So, no, having Sam possessed never came back to bite Dean in the rear. Dean didn’t get the MOC because of repercussions from what he did to Sam. He ran off about 2.5 seconds after Sam found out what had happened. After months of hearing that Sam would drop dead if Gadreel was evicted, and after Cas said last year that Sam was too damaged to be healed, Dean skedaddles off before Sam can say more than a couple of sentences. He doesn’t even wait to find out if Sam CAN be healed by Cas. And he take the MOC on his own, not in reaction to any blow back about Sam’s being possessed. And now we have been assured by the writers and actors alike that we don’t have to worry about Dean being a BAD demon. Dean is going to have fun and be irresponsible, like an Amish kid on Rumspringa but Sam? Sam is going to be the real monster. We can all be comfortable with the same old, same old of Sam being a horrible monster and Dean being the poor put upon brother who will have to point out the error of Sam’s ways. And have yet another thing he can throw in Sam’s face the NEXT time Sam needs to confess something. There was Ruby (because Ruby is eternal), there was you coming back without your soul, there was the time you went nuts and hurt people trying to save me. Bad Sam, Bad Sam.

            I am very frustrated.

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            1. Oh I didn’t mean that the decision to have Sam possessed came back to bite him. I meant his decision NOT to deal with his issues involving Sam, had consequences. He spent the entire season trying to avoid dealing with the decisions he made at the seasons beginning. His inability to square things with his brother had consequences. I think it falls squarely in Deans lap, everything that happened after he left Sam. From cozying up to a demon, which Sam would never have allowed, to receiving the MoC, which Sam would’ve at least questioned or researched had he been present.

              But if all they’re going to do is water down Deans demonic impulses, then all of season nine becomes pointless and I see your point. There should be greater consequences than Dean going out and having a good time, pal-ing around with Crowley. Hopefully, the writers will forget Sam is part of the show and forget to hammer home this particular plot point, because I despair of them ever being able to write him in any coherent fashion. Dean will mention it once and then it’ll be forgotten, I hope. ( …Because Ruby is eternal!…😂)

              I still say that the writers are really struggling to write a character who is smarter than them and have no idea how a highly intelligent, introverted person thinks about and interacts with the world around him. Here’s the thing, when Kripke wrote about Sam, Sam was as smart as the writer and these guys no matter how they try just aren’t in Kripkes league. They just aren’t. Witness how in the earlier seasons, Sam spoke a lot more about how he felt and was very impassioned about his beliefs and fought Dean hard for those beliefs. (His sojourn in Hell may have burnt a lot of this out of him.)

              I don’t plan to stop watching the show. I will probably just become less emotionally engaged with it, which is how I handle my disappointments in Pop Culture, of which there are many. As incoherently written is he is ,I still understand and feel for Kripkes version of Sam and that’s the version of Sam that informs much of my feelings about the current Sam. I was a Sam girl first before I learned to appreciate Dean bc Sam is someone I grok. I just get him. I just understand how he views and approaches the life he lives bc these are the ways I would handle the craziness, right down to a lot of his emotional reactions. I still ,even today, see glimpses of the original Sam underneath the incoherence of the new writers who don’t have a clue how to write a highly intelligent, emotionally suppressed man.

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              1. I think you are right about them not knowing how to write an introvert who is smarter than they are. I just wish they wouldn’t punt by not writing for Sam at all. I also think the show tends to bring in “smart” characters to fill out the recurring cast. Charlie is a computer genius, so Sam’s former hacking skills are transferred to her. Kevin is the smart kid, who is a prophet, so suddenly Kevin is translating Enochian even though Sam recognized the language in Hollywood Babylon AND spent a LOT of time locked in a cage with two angels whose native language was Enochian. So again, an area where Sam should have had expertise where he could have contributed to cases got offloaded to Kevin. Sam’s smarts. Heck Cas was brought in to save Dean and suddenly morphed into guy with all the answers on the Apocalypse and all things angelic. The writers seem to prefer to keep reducing Sam’s useful role in the show by giving his talents to other characters. The idea of having a human character be a better fighter than Dean or wanting to fight monsters more than Dean or to take any part of Dean’s roles is unthinkable. This does not leave me confident that Dean will be shown as being anything other than Dean the slightly naughty demon because Dean’s role is to be the “righteous man” and the writers, and frankly fans, will not allow that to change.

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                1. I actually have seen others make this complaint before. That which should be Sam’s roles are being given to people who are little more than guests on the show. I like Charlie just fine and I like how they tried to get Sam and her to be friends but it felt forced. I’m glad Cas and Sam got to spend time together too but that felt forced too, although interesting to watch. (Oddly, Sam’s real chemistry is with Crowley and he’s hanging out with Dean.) Sam is not an amiable, hale fellow-well met type of guy. Except for Dean and the women he’s been involved with ,Sam keeps his emotions on a very short leash.

                  Idk, I’d prefer them to just not write him at all then write him and dumb him down. It’s ironic that the two writers I hate the most, are the two who most often get his character correct but end up destroying canon while doing that.

                  I’m feeling a little bit more confident about DemonDean than that. The clip I watched did a pretty good job of showing Dean being pretty demonic. I remain pretty sure though that the writers won’t get too edgy with him though. This is Primetime and it it’s notoriously timid with characters. It also remains to be seen exactly what the writers definition of “bad/demonic” means.

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                  1. Is Dean having fun and “devil make care” attitude demonic vs. Sam doing some real shifty stuff. It has possibility of showing more about Sam and expanding his personality. He holds back his emotions and issues- that is what lead to his distance in s9 vs. Dean who demonstrates his turmoil thru drink, violence, and babes- demon Dean or just plain Dean.

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                2. Sam is going to go pretty far( as a human) without any supernatural pressure such as demon blood. So I think it is an interesting route to take the character if the writers handle it well. Human choices that are all Sam. Remember that his soulless self was Sam too. He also made the choice to believe Ruby and if you want to blame the addiction well now he is purified isn’t he?

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  3. I don’t think anything Sam does to save Dean will upset me-I have to wait and see but Dean deserves to be saved and Sam NEEDS to be the one to save him.
    I don’t think it will upset me either barb, unless like someone said on the board today, Sam does a deal, but will he be this stupid? I’m wondering if its like killing an innocent person to find Dean. I agree wholeheartedly about Dean being saved and Sam has to be the one to do it. Sam needs this as I’ve said before for his own piece of mind, that he can do it.

    Love Aunty B xxxx

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    1. Dean does not want to be saved. Sam did not want to be saved. Here goes the symmetry. Let Dean have some fun not being responsible for Sam for a while. And Sam does need to accept how hard Dean’s choices have been as well and wear the bridle of savior. Nobody gets away without suffering.

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      1. “Dean does not want to be saved. Sam did not want to be saved. Here goes the symmetry. Let Dean have some fun not being responsible for Sam for a while. And Sam does need to accept how hard Dean’s choices have been as well and wear the bridle of savior. Nobody gets away without suffering.”
        Great post

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      2. Let Dean have some fun not being responsible for Sam for a while. And Sam does need to accept how hard Dean’s choices have been as well and wear the bridle of savior. Nobody gets away without suffering.

        You mean because Sam has NEVER made hard choices to save Dean? Did I hallucinate him being willing to risk killing Bobby to get Dean back in Mystery Spot? Was being willing to turn himself into a monster and later jump in The Cage to be savior to the world not suffering enough? How about taking on his Hell memories so Dean wasn’t out there alone? Not enough suffering for you?

        There’s a whole lot of commentary on how Sam “doesn’t understand” Dean’s desperation. The thing is this totally ignores the fact that Sam has been in Dean’s shoes more than a HUNDRED times. We talk about Mystery Spot Sam and then all that gets talked about is Sam “going dark”, not the fact that Dean will, in all likelihood, never, ever see Sam die as much as Sam has already seen Dean die. It doesn’t get mentioned that Sam was trying for at least 100 day to save Dean using everything at his disposal. He killed the owner of Mystery Spot trying to save Dean, for goodness sakes. But then fans start with Sam has to accept how hard poor Dean’s choices have been, ignoring the fact that Sam had choices every bit as hard as Dean’s. The dismissal of the fact that Sam HAS suffered as badly as Dean makes me nuts. For me the reality is that DEAN and the show and especially fandom have never acknowledged how hard Sam’s choices were after Dean went to Hell.Instead Sam gets blamed for going off the rails. Dean STILL hasn’t forgiven Sam for that. His speech in 8.23 was that he never put anyone above Sam, not that he understood why Sam “let him down” or that he forgave Sam for the times Sam “let him down”. There is every indications that 20 years from now Dean will STILL be beating Sam up emotionally about Ruby and daring to let Cas leave his soul behind in the Cage and having the audacity to go to college.

        It makes me nuts.

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        1. Not saying Sam did not have difficult choices to make and he certainly suffered consequences. He processes in a different way than Dean. Even when Dean was with Lisa, he was always checking for the monster outside the door. When Sam was with Amelia, he lived a somewhat normal although fairy tale like existence and just denied the entire truth of the hunters; life. The nature of the story is to have the pain flip between the brothers. Dean’s guilt is always probed at or alluded to. He doesn’t do well lying to Sam- season 7 Amy- and admits he has been drinking for the record because of it. Sam has deceived Dean also. Both have suffered and will suffer that is what gives us the human perspective. The horror genre is just a backdrop for a story about the brothers which is quite the opposite of the original intent by Kripke. And so glad it went in that direction.

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      1. “unless like someone said on the board today, Sam does a deal, ”
        Been there done that own the tee shirt! Would the writers REALLY go THERE AGAIN? I hope not.

        I know its as Crowley said so predictable that its expected that Sam will do some deal. Even Crowley has worked out their pattern. I want them to break that cycle and surprise me and do something a bit edgy like the old days.

        Love Aunty B xxxx

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        1. It would only be interesting in the sense that it’s Sam doing it and we haven’t really seen that before, but we also need to keep in mind that after Ruby, Sam wants nothing at all to do with any demons ever again. Being tricked into releasing Lucifer, nearly destroying the world and spending over a hundred years in Hell would be more than enough to teach him a great deal of caution as regards demons. He has learned. There will be no deals. Most likely he will kill some innocent people or something. You saw how dark he got in Mystery Spot and was willing to kill Bobby to find the Trickster.

          . And hating on demons is the reason he was so set on killing Crowley. I think Sam really learned the lesson that absolutely nothing good can come from allying or associating with any demon.

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          1. And therein lies the dichotomy again. Sam openly will say he hates demons. He has wanted to gank Crowley even more since Sarah died from a Crowley spell. So Sam hates demons. Sam loves Dean. Dean is a demon. How is Sam going to suss this one out is the first few episodes I bet. He doesn’t meet up with Dean until ep 3 so he can get into a lot of unsavory situations. Would he sleep with another demon for information or hast he really learned that onee.

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            1. Good question? Just how far is he willing to go to save Dean?

              To Percysowner: I’m going to argue that Sam has suffered more and been betrayed worse than Dean. A hundred years in Hell is definitely something to cry about and being tricked into destroying the world ,I feel, trumps feeling abandoned by ones family for a demon (…cuz Ruby is eternal, apparently!😄)

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              1. I agree with you that Sam was more betrayed, but the show focuses on how hurt Dean was by Sam, not about how Sam feels about well most things. He has never been given the chance to talk about how he felt to realize that Ruby totally betrayed him. He has never been allowed to even speak about what happened in the Cage. First he was soulless and didn’t care. Then he couldn’t even begin to to look at what happened because it would break the wall. Then he hallucinated Lucifer for one episode and pressed his hand for the next 15 episodes. Then Cas took the memories and we got the saga of sad Cas who was incapacitated by Sam’s insanity, so he had to be totally forgiven from breaking Sam’s wall. Sam never got to talk about his suffering, CAS got to show his insanity to make him a good guy. Sam, well he’s condemned by the show because he didn’t obviously suffer the way Dean did coming back from Hell and Cas did after he took the hallucinations.

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                1. Huzzah! This is the main reason I thought season seven was so bad. Villains weren’t tight, too much focus on Castiel, no emotional cohesion, although at least the brothers weren’t fighting with each other. We have to watch Sam very closely to get his reaction to anything cuz the writers only allow him to tell us in the most obtuse manner.

                  The closest we came to hearing Sam talk about what happened last season was when he was with Castiel and the things Sam says are rather oblique. I think I mentioned before that the writers think being highly intelligent means being “mysterious” as Sam never approaches any subject directly. He only ever seems to spiral slowly towards it without actually reaching the center. It’s like they’re teasing us.

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                  1. ETA: maybe that’s the reasons some of the fans act the way they do. Dean is just much much easier for them to comprehend. He’s all spelled out. Sam you have to interpret and some people just aren’t up for that.

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                    1. Sam is deep. Dean is more exposed. There is something for everyone. I am bi-brother. No favorites. Dean gets the smart ass lines but watch Sam’s facial reactions-something you do not always perceive on first viewing. Both actors do a bang up job interpreting the roles. Nice to see Jared excited for Jensen’s new Dean.

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                  2. Sam was created as the unwilling hero. Since Jessica’s death, he has closely guarded his feelings except for his rants against Dean. Even with Amelia, he was not so forthcoming to talk it out.

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  4. The blame always ends up on Sam. Whenever Dean does something that is seen to be wrong by much of fandom an outcry starts. God Forbid that Dean be seen as wrong or even mistaken. I don’t even think it’s because they want to keep the boys divided. I think that for whatever reason, Dean is always allowed a well defined, totally articulated POV and in Dean’s POV Dean does the right thing. In Dean’s POV Sam is the little brother who failed him when Sam went to college, and when he hooked up with Ruby even though Sam was trying to stop Lucifer from rising. Dean has never forgiven Sam for any of his mistakes and since his complaints are repeated season after season, fandom won’t let them go either. So now it’s easier for the writers to have Dean do “something wrong” and then make damned sure that Sam is seen as worse. Dean will be a good demon, the thing that Dean says doesn’t exist because Dean didn’t believe it. And Sam will be the truly evil one, because other wise how can Dean look good?
    Its good to see you back Percy. I know I get mad at times too, and its not always fair. Dean is the righteous man after all, and I think this is why he’s always been written this way. I have always thought that one brother is written dark and the other pure that he can do no wrong. I find it very annoying that Sam’s POV isn’t always written very well and a lot of the time we are left in the dark trying to work it out. I think this story will need to pan out, perhaps things might end up differently. Its just annoyed me that its turned back on Sam again.

    I am not feeling good about next season. I will stick with it to see how things are handled, but if what they are saying now happens and Sam is wrong again, while Dean gets excused by the writers and most of fandom, I don’t think I will be able stay a fan of the show.
    Its horrible feeling this way, and its a tough decision on whether you stay or go. But I love these boys through thick and thin, and say to myself its not them its the writing that’s at fault. Or should I say JC’s fault for thinking up these crazy stories. I’m not happy that Sam is being got at again because of something he’s supposedly done wrong, but hope there is a reason for it at the end of the day. Otherwise, I will be *****!

    Love Aunty B xxxx

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    1. Completely understandable viewpoint. My way of handling it was just to avoid the fandom for a while and watch the show in solitude. But you have a point. I’m bi-bro and even I can see what’s been happening to Sam’s character. I’m not liking it one bit. And yeah, I still love the guy.

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