And WHY is Dean still annoyed with Sam, when Sam did his best to save Dean? Why did Dean need to bring it up?
Was entrapping an innocent to lure out a demon, and killing a human host the worst thing Sam did when he was alone for six months, without Dean. What is Sam keeping back from Dean that he’s not fully revealing? “There ain’t much difference from what I turned into to what you already are,” says Dean to Sam. Which is a pretty high statement from someone who is already a monster himself? So in a roundabout way, what has Dean got to really bleat about? They are both as bad as each other, or what else is Dean trying to make us all think? I felt particularly in the car we were walking on egg shells and not really getting to the truth of the matter. Sam was being evasive, or was it ‘just me’?
“You might actually be worse than me.” Dean Snarks ….
Is Dean accurate in his assumption that Sam might actually be worse than him, and he knows there’s more than Sam is ready to tell yet? Has Dean been spying on Sam knowing damned fine well what he got up to? His spies inform him that Sam’s unsavory deeds so are we going to find out what Sam did actually do during those six months apart?
Dean: So what’s this about me not being ready back there?
Sam: I’m — I wasn’t… trying to start something, Dean.
Dean: I was just saying, I thought that was the whole point of us taking a break. You know?
Oh, no. No, yeah. I get that.
Sam: And, you know, there’s no worries there.
Dean: Okay
Sam: But I gotta ask. What about you?
Dean: What about me, what?
Sam: Are you ready?
Dean: Why wouldn’t I be ready?
Dean: Lester.
Sam: Lester?
Flash back to Sam in the bar meeting Lester:
Lester: My wife kicked me to the curb.
We haven’t had s*x for four months, but not that she hasn’t been having plenty.
It is possible that you can have your revenge.
CRD: Who summons me, and for what purpose?
Sam: Lester! Don’t!
Lester: Kill my wife, and my soul is yours.
Lester: Who are you?
Lester & CRD seal the deal with a kiss: Uhh! Ow!
Lester: You’re a punk-ass demon!
CRD: And you work for me now.
Again the pair continues to kiss [ Squish ] Uhh!
Sam: You’re serious? This is about Lester
Lester: Um, don’t get me wrong. I’m not –
Sam: I’m not — I’m not trying to start anything either, okay?
I’m just saying, maybe… maybe we oughta talk about that.
Okay, expect there’s nothing to talk about.
Dean: Okay.
Sam: Okay.
Dean: I just figured, since we’re opening up veins that maybe you’d want to talk about the guy who you made sell his soul.
Sam: The guy who you then killed, right? I mean, that’s the same guy we’re talking about?
Dean: I was a demon.
Sam: Oh, you were a demon? Oh, I didn’t realize that.
[ Chuckles ]
Dean: Hey, man, Lester was gonna pay for that soul shake sooner or later. So technically, it’s still on you.’
Sam: What do you want from me, Dean?
Dean: Look, I w– I’m not happy about it, okay?
Sam: But I needed to find you. So if I had to… bend a few rules…
Dean: Go dark. Go dark.
Sam: Sure. Label it if you want.
Dean: Look, man, again, I’m not complaining, okay? In fact, I’m doing just the opposite of complaining. I… I just… You know, between Lester and the others…
Sam: There weren’t others.
Dean: Okay, either way, maybe we both needed that time off. This is good. This is good.
Sam: Yeah. [ Whispers ] Okay.
Dean seemed really judgmental regarding Sam’s actions. I felt Dean was quizzing Sam like the demon in him was still wanting answers and nagging him. Yes Dean has nagged Sam in the past, but this seemed niggly like he was picking on a moment just to rattle Sam. So are we to assume that Dean thinks there were others, other humans that Sam may have conned into making a deal? Is this what Dean is suspicious of? Doesn’t Dean trust Sam again here? Sam forcefully insures Dean that there were no ‘OTHERS.’ So why the pussy footing around when Sam had it under control so he thinks? Sam after all this time did save Dean’s hide, but I felt like he was thanking him one minute. Then laying his law down thick on him the next. Sam was caring and wanted to find out how Dean was. But was he prepared for the backlash that came from Dean.
Maybe I am reading too much into this, but it just seems a shame when Sam goes to all this trouble and effort for him to have his big brother hi-jack his efforts. How did you see Dean’s remarks about wanting to know if there were in fact ‘others’ that Sam might not have been telling Dean the whole truth? Do you think he is keeping anything back that hasn’t been fully explained, or ironed out? Do you think that they are setting up Dean to kill Sam. Something doesn’t feel right with this whole Mark of Cain still lurking in the dark. Could this dark magic still be drifting towards something a confrontation between the brothers that is sparked by the mark. Dean still needs the urge to kill, and Sam is closest to him at the moment. Is Dean’s anger beginning to bubble under the surface?
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Hi Bella! Nice to see your blog blooming! I hope Dean is faking it, as it’s going to add another dimension to his characteristics! Chuck is back, I am damn excited!!
Son of Satan, good to see you after all this time. Read your posts on face-book still. Thank you for the lovely comment. But if Dean is faking it, Demon Dean is still around which everyone still wants. So it was just a case of me using my imagination 😉 I am excited Chuck came back, but I don’t think it means jack squatt!!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I don’t think Dean is faking anything either. I remember that Dean was not possessed by an external demon with the MoC, THIS DEMON WAS/IS ALL DEAN! This is the manifestation of all the guilt and frustration and rage that has built up over a lifetime of sacrificing for family. Yes, Sam admitted there were ‘others’, as in OTHER DEMONS. We saw him torturing one for information in this season’s first episode. But I don’t think he plowed through innocent people to find his brother. That just doesn’t seem like Sam. Meanwhile, are we supposed to believe that all “Deanmon” did was hang out at the bars, bang chicks and beat up guys he didn’t like. He had to raise more hell than that, didn’t he??? I think that hell comes back to bite him in the ass in later episodes…Just sayin.’
It will be interesting to see if Hell does bite Dean up the rear. Because I still think he did more than they were letting on. Dean on the rampage would be uncontrollable and just knocking Crowley to the floor, seemed a bit lame for Crowley not being able to handle him. I think that Sam would find it hard to kill innocent people, if this is what he has supposed to have done during his six months alone. Dean found out about his trail and wasn’t very best pleased. So what could be worse than killing innocents? Sam is always drastic and driven when Dean is involved. So I can wonder/ponder if it was something worse than this? I hope not!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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He also make his own Hell with his guilt.
I agree!!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I respectfully disagree. I understand that we’re all different people and people are going to approach the series in different ways but, I think your way of approaching the brother’s relationship is unnecessarily negative, just as you may see my thoughts on their relationship as “Pollyanna-ish”.
I don’t think the writers have the intention in their minds of always making Sam look bad and I don’t believe Dean is faking being cured just to needle Sam. I do realize Dean has a rather harsh view of some of the things Sam has done in the past (which should mostly be left in the past, and look to the future) and that it’s the fans who are adopting whatever Dean thinks about him, that is causing the problem.
I’ve heard it argued that they have an abusive relationship but the idea you just posited, I find it extremely disturbing, especially if Dean isn’t a demon, which I don’t think he is any more.
Yes, Dean has issues but I don’t think he’s trying to pawn those issues off on Sam in an effort to make himself seem like a better person. I’ve never seen that and find it hard to believe he’d suddenly adopt such a character trait now. That sounds absolutely horrible. (Although I do believe he’d say such things in order to keep the status quo,sure.)
I can see, in the last episode, him struggling not to fall back into old habits of trying to condemn anything Sam does, and the last episode very much captured the feel of the old relationship from seasons 1-5, but with the new dynamic of Sam being more take charge. Dean did say he wasn’t mad at Sam for what he did. I interpreted their conversation as him knowing things about Sam that Sam wasn’t sharing and being deeply concerned about some of the things Sam had done and whether or not he was being emotionally affected by it. The whole thing sounded very much like some of their old conversations they’ve had about how events affected them.
I think they’re tentatively feeling out this new dynamic. I can see them trying to make this work and being unsure how to do it because it’s so new and different to their old habits.
That said , I don’t expect anything that happens this season to change the minds of those who have chosen to hate Sam. Those people only see and hear what they want to, to the exclusion of all evidence to the contrary and I’ve given up on trying to convince such people that Sam deserves the benefit of the doubt.
I know,however, that you actually like Sam. It’s the reason you’re so willing to argue his case and not simply follow behind whatever Dean thinks about things Sam has done. I can see how a person might think the worst about Dean based on the things he’s said in the past,but i think he should be given the benefit of the doubt now. If he falls back into old habits then hey! Condemn him all you want.
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Oh, I’m sorry. I was addressing this to Percysowner.
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I don’t see Sam written as negatively either. Both brothers carry around enough guilt. Dean’s way of expressing his issues is just Dean the older brother. Notice the writers went out of their way to have each brother say neither wanted to start something. They are searching for an understanding of themselves and each other in the I would do anything for you context and what the hell did I do. Dean is aware that he almost killed Sam in the bunker as well as all of the other misdeeds. Sam is aware of his going “dark: a bit as well. They share the blame in the Lester debacle. Well, at least they are sharing. It is not their usual conversation to be open about issues, at least there are attempts to do so. Acceptance of each other and themselves seems to be a theme.
I said in my previous post to you debbab, I think they are becoming strangely closer with one another again. Not so much direct contact, but little things. I think having big supernatural things happen to both of them, they are just glad about being on the same level footing again. I think they are comfortable with working along side each other, and its showing!!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I can see them sort of tiptoeing around this kind of talking since they’re not used to doing this, they’re unsure of how to do it and there are bound to be some miss-steps. This is a new tactic for them. It’s just the opening salvo, the overture, to the conversation they need to have. When you listen to them in the car, you can hear Dean trying to pull back from what he usually does in such conversations. And then later on, after some thought, Sam comes clean and admits that he lied about the things he did.
Their both feeling guilty, and that’s been waying down on them for a while. Its not easy coming back from events that they’ve both been through and are still clearly struggling with. I think when they get the opportune moment to talk, they talk and its almost therapeutic for them being able to sound off one another. They will get through this, they always do!!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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The way they are talking now is refreshing. They are trying not to hurt each other,trying to be truthful. Its the best they have done in years. Instead of letting bad feelings build up and lead to an explosion they are letting it out a little at a time and they arent ATTACKING each other. I think its great! So I read that someone told Carver we should have gotten a “brohug” and he said that we are going to get something better-whats better than a “brohug”? NOTHING I can think of. LOL
I think they are beginning to settle down with each others company again, which is always good news! They have been through so much and the tension clearly showed. I seem to remember that comment being mentioned on the board, and we had trouble thinking what could be better than a bro-hug. And I seem to recall something about a Winchester kiss being mentioned. That wouldn’t sit well with me!!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I can’t think of anything better than a bro-hug either, but it’s also much too soon for that. They need to work on and re-establish this new relationship before they reach that point. They haven’t had such candid convo’s since Kripke and that all need when Sam went to Hell. Since that time, their relationship hasn’t been right at all. I think this season is really going to be a quieter and more personal, with a somewhat slow start. I do trust Carver. I trust he’ll give us a good payoff for our patience. If he says he’s going to work on their relationship this season, then I trust that’s what he’ll do. So far, he hasn’t actually lied about what he’s going to do each season. He’s just been vague, which is normal.
It is too soon for a hug, but Dean has hugged Sam for a lot less in the past. I seem to recall when Charlie left the building Dean came back in and hugged Sam and that was completely out of the blue, so you can never tell with these writers when one is physically due! JC has said its individual struggles with what they are dealing with personally. So there is no big bad this season. Unless some might think Dean is one? But again he’s totally wrecked Sam season 8 Sam was terrible. I still haven’t forgiven him for Sam not looking for Dean. So I hope your right in your thinking.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I meant ” that all ended, when Sam went to Hell.”
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We got the truth told to each other and an opening to a real conversation that the hug always represented. We are told that saying thank you is not necessary between these two so neither would am I am sorry be necessary. Some things are understood. We did get an” embarrassing” from Dean. Maybe a hug down the line. They are not there yet.
But again facial expression are telling us a great deal. How you see them struggle with certain issues, and how their inner problems begin to get resolved. I don’t think that hug is far off. I thought Sam was going to hug Dean when he came back from being a demon but he didn’t. I need to see Sam hug Dean for once, not the other way around.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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Yes. It was record time that a Winchester admitted he was lying. One episode. Clearly this season is about perceived truths. It has an introspective feel so far-even for Cas as he explores his relationships threw Hannah.
Which Winchester are you talking about Sam, Dean or both? Yes I agree with you.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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Notice how Sam doesn’t let Dean take out any of the werewolves and does it all himself even with a gimpy shoulder sling. He is painfully aware of the need to feed the MoC. The distinction Dean makes both here and in the bunker when Sam may have to kill him, is that Dean was a demon when he was naughty. Sam’s choices were all his own, as human Sam. Is that making Sam dark again? They both have much to worry about for the rest of the season. There focus will combine onto a big bad, Rowena but their stories commingle. John said,”if you can’t save him, you’ll have to kill him.” Heard that echo in the Impala on the way out to roll credits.
I think the whole MoC thing has strangely bought the boys even closer together. Sam knows when Dean is different, when the mark is clearly bothering him. And Dean just needs Sam around. Sam took the gun to bed, and that showed me how uneasy Sam was with the MoC present in their home. It made him uncomfortable, and terrified at the same time. It makes me wonder what human Sam is up to the same as human Crowley. They are both doing very odd things lately that would they do if they were themselves?
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I didn’t find anything Sam did evil. Yes Lester made a deal because of Sam but he WANTED to-he wasn’t tricked into it and Sam had planned on stopping him before he did it. But he was so anxious to make the deal Lester drove right in.
Correct on both points! I don’t think Sam predicted on how quick the demon would jump in and sign that deal. Even he was slow on the up take there.
I also think Dean is driving home a point-that what Dean did with Gadreel wasn’t all bad and that now Sam knows how Dean felt when Sam was dying. I don’t think he’s being snarky or obnoxious-he’s just feeling guilty as usual.
Dean at the time was so mixed up and was driven as per to do something drastic to stop Sam from dying. Dean was hopelessly driven by family loyalty, and every inch of the way, I got why he did what he did. I think it took Sam longer to process this, but once he realized he was okay! If Sam is in trouble, Dean’s guilt is always magnified by 120%….
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I think there could be several reasons why Dean is acting like this. The first is the Mark. It is something that comes from a man who believes he killed his brother because otherwise, Abel would be so evil it would damn his soul. Now, I personally am taking what Cain said with a mountain of salt. We have never heard Abel’s side and Cain may not be able to face the idea that maybe he was wrong about what Abel was doing or his memories may be being influenced by the Mark. If the Mark did influence Cain, it may also be warping Dean’s views of Sam.
That is so true, we haven’t heard Abel’s side so the story is very one-sided. Maybe Abel wasn’t talking to Lucifer in the way he thought. The Mark I bet does twist things, in the way that the person reads another person. So what really happened might not be what actually happened.
The second thing it may be is Dean deflecting from his own guilt about what he did as a demon. If he can believe Sam is worse than Dean as a demon, he can put what he did away because, Hey not as bad as Sam is. Also, Sam has always been the one that is wrong, according to Dean. Sam abandoned Dean when he went to college (even though he didn’t) Sam didn’t save Dean from Hell. Sam went with Ruby and started the Apocalypse. Sam came back soulless (even though that wasn’t his fault) Sam lost his mind when he got his memories back. Sam didn’t look for him when he was in Purgatory. Sam didn’t forgive him instantaneously when he found out about Gadreel (Dean got the Mark before Sam said anything to him. He left Sam as soon as Sam threw Gadreel out and got the Mark then, not after any harsh words had been exchanged). Dean was second in command with John. Dean has pretty much been in charge of where they live, what they eat and what hunts they follow. When Sam went off on his own, he got Jess killed, started the Apocalypse and didn’t save Dean from Purgatory. Now Sam has (presumably) saved Dean and that changes the dynamic between the two of them. Dean may be trying to reassert his place as the leader of their twosome. The easiest way is to make Sam feel as if he is still less capable than Dean.
Interesting concept, and something to ponder over. I think still that Dean seeing that Sam saved him, has allowed them to bond again. I think it was the best thing that the writers could have done for Sam in saving his brother. It was a great selfless act, even though he had done some dodgy things to get there, the end result was rescuing Dean from an evil fate. So much crap has gone under the bridge that I think it will take them both time to heal the trust issues they both have. But I think now with that SAVE, the relationship is in a far better place than it once was.
Of course, there is still the possibility that Dean is still a demon and is engaging in psychological warfare. He did tell Sam that what he intended to do to Sam wasn’t mercy. He may be pretending to be cured in order to torture Sam and then let him know that Sam has failed yet again and still only accomplishes things by doing evil.
Percy I feel this isn’t in Dean’s nature. I think if Dean is faking it I really don’t feel this is to get back at Sam in any way. I think if he’s faking it, its because he enjoyed being that demon even though he admits to Cas he hated it. He didn’t want Sam to find him and did everything he could not to be found. I hope this is more of the case than getting back at Sam, because I really don’t think that’s in Dean’s nature. He did of course thank Sam after for saving him!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I forgot to add that it is also possible that the writers are intending, yet again, to have Sam be evil, wrong and worse than Dean. That would really anger me, but it is a possibility that they are going there.
Its difficult to say for certain, but I do sometimes feel this too. Lets hope they don’t go there.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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