So we’ve been here before, and death has never overly surprised us. But what was so poignant about Dean’s death this time? He’s lost his life before and been in a terrible place and come back. He’s ended up in Purgatory and come back when Sam thought he was dead. So its not impossible to think this time will be no different. But how different this time has it really got? Is there a way back from this for Dean?
I guess there are ways around returning Dean back to his former glory. That Sam could finish the trials and cure a demon his brother. He could ask Crowley for his help, but would he give it willingly. Is Dean right where Crowley wants him, his servant. Sam will find himself in exactly the same position he was in when I know what you did last summer. When he begged the demon to deal for his own life to bring Dean back. So this time Sam knows he has Dean’s body right in front of him, and has the wear with all to proceed, but is it enough. Is there any going back for Dean? Is Dean so far down the line now, so corrupted that Sam can’t bring him back. Or that Crowley won’t deal the cards that Sam wants so desperately. Crowley after all said the words ‘so expected’. That he instantly new that Sam would summon him, and deal his life for his brothers. But Crowley had other plans, that he was ignoring Sam’s plight, and went straight ahead with his own. To continue Dean down the path to become what he clearly is, a demon. So the tale has come full circle, and Crowley is there at the alter to meet Demon Dean, just as he did at the start of the story.
I still strongly feel that Crowley was lying through his teeth when talking to Dean. He always does lie, Dean’s words you can never trust a demon… So now the worst has happened that Dean has died and been resurrected into Crowley’s new toy where does this exactly leave Dean. Is he a demon or something undiscovered that we don’t really know yet. Crowley is the King of Hell, who himself is powerful and a high ranking demon. Where does this leave Dean in the demon chain? Is he a fully fledged demon as he’s human and hasn’t been in hell long enough to have a twisted soul. So how far down the road is Dean? What do you think Dean is, and is there a cat in hell’s chance of him being cured? Would Crowley let Sam have his own way this time, and be so cooperative as to give his prized possession away, Dean Winchester.
A Blog devoted to J2 and Friends! 
I dont remember anyone talking about this. In the finale Dean summons Crowley and when Crpowley gets there he says “whts that smell?” and when Sam finds the box without the Clade he or Cas says “whats that smell” “sulfur”. Does that mean Dean was starting to smell like sulfur?? Oh poor Demon!Dean.
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i think because crowley was there to come and get him
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“i think because crowley was there to come and get him”
Then why did Crowley say whats that smell? 🙂
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“Then why did Crowley say whats that smell? 🙂 ”
i thought it was cas and sam for some reason lol perhaps it was from the match that was lit right as he appeared?
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is summer over yet?
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I think Crowley loves Dean too much to make him his servant. plus dean has mark of Cain so he might act as a right hand to Crowley. But as far as Dean’s worst nightmare has come true that he is a demon he might do what Cain did. Cain could kill his “children’s” Dean can continue killing the demons of the night until Sam finds a way to ring Dean back to his human form. Somehow as Jared Padelecki said how he finally got to be the brother to Dean on screen. How Sam becomes the brother he had hoped for. I did not find Sam compelling enough. May be because Dean does a little more than what Sam did for Dean. I think i am also tired of angels and demons war!
Hi wishfheart and welcome to the group! 😉
I still don’t think Crowley loves anybody. He’s out for his own ends he always has been. Unless of course the human blood has messed with his head. Which is a possibility. I think this was what he was banking on the whole time, to keep Dean as his slave, as the boys did with him. Revenge has always been Crowley’s motive. Sam is a person who finds it hard to show his feelings, he always has. I think he needs to do this to save Dean. Not just for his own sanity but to make him likable to the audience again. Many have lost a lot of love for Sam, and the writers need to change their style over Sam. I think they did him a huge disfavor last season, and its rubbed off onto this one. I don’t think JC really understands Sammy. I think Jared should be in charge of writing Sam.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Well, someone is writing Sam wrong. In the earlier seasons we got some definite proof of what and how Sam was feeling about things. It wasn’t all the time but it was enough. Now we have to decipher it through Jared’s acting. If he wasn’t such a good actor, we’d have no idea how Sam felt about anything.
I don’t see how Crowley being selfish precludes his having feelings. He can still have feelings of love and care for the brothers, it’s just that those feelings don’t stop him from acting like a dick. And let’s be fair ,Crowley has been a lot less dickish this season, after all the human blood. It’s pretty obvious to me that he really does care about them. That doesn’t stop him from messing with them or using them for his own ends though. Remember when he was human he had feelings then too, but that didn’t stop him from abusing his own son.
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yes but Jar pad says that the brotherly love between Sam and Dean will be seen in the upcoming season. Mark has been upgraded to regular cast for the 10th season so yes there will be twist and turns but he is King of Hell what do you expect from him? What I probably disliked is Jared’s acting (Sorry to say that). When you see the first few seasons you can see that Sam does care for Dean and does whatever he can. But in the 9th season i did not find him as caring and loving as he was before. I found him a bit cold in his acting even in the last episode. I just hope that I get to see the bromance at its peak. (saying this seems like i hate Sam. I dont. I want to see the old caring Sam back that’s all).
Sam has grown since those early seasons, they both have. I think with the journey they’ve both been on we see our heroes very differently now. But they are still our heroes. The last couple of seasons Sam has been poorly written and it shows. I think its building up to something that JC hasn’t planned yet. Why Sam didn’t look for Dean and his coldness towards Benny etc. Sam said he wouldn’t save Sam via Supernatural means, and this is clearly leading him up to saving Dean in this manner. The reason I think you feel he’s cold is that he’s still angry over the possession and its taken him a long time to process it. He does save Dean, he does care for Dean but has a hard time showing it. I miss the old Sam, but I think he’s gone and we have to move with the times. If JC does turn a corner we maybe surprised.
Love Aunty B xxx
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finally its good to see the role reversed in season 10. Dean being too devilish 🙂 and carefree and Sam being in Dean’s shoe. How he wants to protect Dean and Dean as he said “is done saving”. Probably the season is off to a good start where for the first time it has nothing centered around Sam. Sam is the most human one. Or shall I say the only human.
wishfheart welcome to the group, wonderful to see a new face. I love the symmetry of the past season too. I like the feel of human Sam too. He does appear more ruthless as we still don’t know what he did to find Dean. I wished we’d seen this Sam during the start of season 8 and we ended up with that dreadful woman who shall remain nameless. It makes a refreshing change to see Dean take on a supernatural force, and Sam be his savior. I also love how Sam is being caretaker to Dean too this year. I am loving this version of Sam. 🙂
Love Aunty B xxxx
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i don’t understand . . . i thought the tattoo dean and sam have prevent them from being possessed by a demon.
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dean is not being possessed dean is still dean it is DEAN THE DEMON!!! it is what the mark and blade turned him into
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“i don’t understand . . . i thought the tattoo dean and sam have prevent them from being possessed by a demon.”
He is not possessed by a demon he is one-although you would thinkj that would create a problem with the tatoo as well LOL
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Note on real exorcism:
According to a major religious insitution, a demon can possess only a human body, not the spirit or soul. That does mean a demon in full possession of a human body can do strange things with the body, preform unholy acts and the mild stiff usually seen on exorcist movies, without knowledge or permission of the victim.
The big but is Dean is not possessed, he has been made into an actual demon by the power of the Mark of Cain. Does anybody know a geninue exorist to talk to? Poor Priest just thought he had heard everything. Ask if he will become Supernatural Fan Fiction’s private consultant. Hum! Interesting thought, the Priest could write a new volume on Church Canon Law, the first brand new work since the 1600s and fan fiction at that. (this a joke, poor as it is)
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Is it just me or is anyone else bored as well with this “Angels & Demons” never ending story that’s going on for 5 seasons now? Supernatural was one of the best-if not the best – TV show for as long as Sam and Dean were taking on random cases of supernatural lore. There is an unfailing source of urban legends in USA alone that could supply season upon season…
I have felt this for sometime so your not on your own Katerina …. I think they could be much more creatively and drop the angel/demon stories completely. I do love Cas and Crowley they are such a huge part of this show now, and would be strange not to have them as go to guys, but I feel sometimes enough is enough.
It has become boring, Bobby is dead, Balthazar (personal favorite) is dead… The only reason I keep watching it is because I’ve grew fond of the two protagonists over the years, and because I absolutely adore Crowley. Crowley rules!!
Many do feel the same, but I could never give up on my boys. I agree Crowley does rule, but am so pissed with him this season for leading Dean to where he is. He has so much to answer for. I think many are very angry with him. So angry they want his head on a plate. I can’t wait personally to see how the cards deal. Whether Dean will stay in the bunker or be zapped off some where with Crowley. I think any chance Dean will get he will take him out. Roll on October!!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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I’m tired of the MOTW cases bc they’ve become formulaic. The brothers get a clue, breeze into town, do a little sleuthing, discover the culprit, the culprit monologues about what they did after smacking at least one of them on the head and tying one of them up, sometimes both, and then the brothers squeeze out by the skin of this teeth and kill the monster.
It works better for me if the MOTW episodes are framed around the mytharc. They can still hunt and kill things while dealing with the mythology and those are usually the best episodes. Like #Thinman ,for example.
That said I’ve never been much for the Angel stuff. I like Cas okay, and there have been a couple of Angels who were interesting but for me the demon stuff and the Hell stuff has been there since season one and it will definately factor into the shows ending. I find the demon stuff far more interesting since that started right in the first episode and it’s what the show is based on, anyway. The death of their Mother by a demon, sends everyone’s life into a tailspin, and we’re still dealing with the physical and emotional fallout 30 years later. That’s a grand idea. The Angel stuff was added in later and the Angels are kind of boring except for two or three of them (Gabriel, Lucifer, Castiel).
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Bella, I think what Dean said in Survival of the Fittest still applies: Crowley will always bone you. Jensen said at some convention this weekend that he will be playing Dean as outwardly changed (I guess demonized) but inwardly the same. So I don’t think we’ll get genocidal killing sprees.
But he’s still more or less acting like an animal, he has rages and times where he can’t control himself. How’s he going to get around those feelings if Crowley still has the blade and he has the mark. If Crowley wants Dean to kill something or someone, Dean will do it. I just have this vision in my head shouting, Dean kill Crowley whilst you’ve got the chance.
I read IMDB and am not a member (happy lurker, too much yelling and screaming and CAPITALIZING on that site) so when you asked for fanfic I have one I found this past year on
archiveofourown.org Grey by Valyria (archiveofourown.org/works/978693/chapters/1926223). It is a long long story set in a strange little AU called alpha/omega stories. It’s Dean/Cas (I don’t normally like Dean/Cas but I must tell you SAM is the brother of my dreams, so wonderful in this story) and it is slash and there is male pregnancy (Dean is an omega, a male who can bear children and Cas is his Alpha because Jimmy Novak was an alpha). I can truly say I have read fan fiction for 10 years now and this story was the first that brought me to tears in like five years. I also have a gen (that means non/slash, sort of like a show episode) Dangerous Games by Leonidaslion (archiveofourown.org/works/152841/chapters/219303) which is a rousing hunt with a human who wants to hunt our hunters. (I don’t know why I can’t get these to embed. Maybe archiveofourown.org is wonky?)If you want a straight story, the second is terrific; if you want angst galore, with slash and genuine tears try the first.
I love IMDb its like my second home. I love the knowledge people have, and how attentive they are to one character in particular. They are not fond of Sam and there are few of us left. I now run the Sam squad and have lately had a rough time where I’ve had to ban posters which hasn’t been easy. It can be scary if you don’t no how to handle the place. There are so many newbies these days, I can’t keep up. There are a few loyal posters but not many of us. I am not a reader I have to say. I find it hard for something to entertain me and keep me occupied. I find fan fiction false as its not the real thing. There are some great stories out there but its just not my cup of tea. I would be hard pushed to sit and read pages. I understand there are so many fans out there who adore fan-fiction but sadly not me. Maybe one day when the show ends I might flick through some pieces but thank you so much for taking the time in posting me the links. 😉 Its sweet of you.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I can’t understand how Jensen can play a demonized Dean only outward…? Dean is exactly the opposite of a demon: loyal, righteous and he just cares about others and stuff… I don’t get it… I can just think of two possibilities 1) Dean really a demon like Jensen played it in DaLDoM, with Dean’s memory but no empathy or kindness at all, just pure evil; 2) Dean not really a demon, but more a MoC-Dean with black eyes, now and then… If Dean remains basically the same there would be no point in trying to cure him, would there? Why give up the superpowers if he’s still the same? Maybe that’going to be one topic of next season…!?
I’d like to know how the rest of you imagine Deamon!
I think this is the reason why they have written Dean dark, as to show opposites, as Sam went dark. But I think its as you say that Dean is righteous which is why going evil makes this so appealing. To see how a once cocky Dean would deal with something supernatural in him. Maybe this time he too might realize what Sam went through, and why he gave his brother a hard time. I don’t think they will go totally demon dark with Dean, he’s a main lead, and they didn’t with Sam. Sam stopped because HE wanted to stop not because the angels told him. I think this story is big for both of them in many ways. If he does go full on dark which I doubt because he’s not been in hell long enough to have his soul twisted, I think Sam could still get him back on both counts. This is where its leading to show us that Sam does care for Dean, and he will get him back no matter by what means.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Stella, I see what you mean. It’s like Dean fought the Blade or the Mark and did not ever just kill kill kill. He was willing to die before killing. I personally think he went to fight Metatron NOT to kill him I could be wrong.
Soulless Sam was Sam, just with no inhibitions. He killed multiple “innocent” bystanders and seemed not to care.
I think Dean has been defined as more human than any other human. Sort of like Joihn was in the revenge business, Sam was in the revenge thru anger business, but Dean wanted to SAVE people from what had happened to his family. All three of them killed monsters, only Dean had a “righteous” reason.
I would want him to be restored to full humanity for himself just the way he would not stop trying to get Sam’s soul back. I never thought Sam cared, he knew Dean cared and the only way he could keep Dean on board was to work together toward restoration of Sam’s soul. (I also never understood why Sam wanted to hunt with Dean; did you?)
Dean would NEVER want to be a demon, even with superpowers. I would have trouble believing that of the character if that was what Show does next year. (Of course, I am an easy sell if it’s well-written and well-acted.)
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“Dean would NEVER want to be a demon, even with superpowers. I would have trouble believing that of the character”
THIS^
I get this, but this is one of the reasons why it does become exciting, that’s what attracts me to it. I think Dean being the human one taking on the supernatural is great to see as we also see it from both of the boys sides. Sam had it all through his life and hated it. Dean will undoubtedly feel the same, but its how he copes with it, and deals with it. I don’t want him going on some mad killing spree killing innocent people. But if he’s only killing the monsters who deserve it, then that’s a different story. I think Jensen will be amazing!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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I don’t know. I think He’d like the superpower part but not the whole,”I’m a monster”, part of the equation. I’d like to see him smite something at least once. I’m anxious to see how the writers are going to play this. I hope they don’t chicken out. I hope they don’t f*** it up.
Watch Jensen’s JIBCON panel both Saturday and Sunday’s. He went into great lengths about the mark and being a demon. Not only being a demon but having to deal with two aspects of the supernatural. He wrote the writers an email and they responded to him with one word, ‘Aliens’ it was so funny. Which means the writers don’t have a friggin clue at the moment. They started back in the writers room last week. I think if soulless Sam was anything to go by this might go on half a season, if they do it well. Also Jensen raised the point that Mark is a regular now and will see much more of him, which is a good indication that Dean will be working opposite Crowley. So my theory about Sam going into the room and Dean not being there I think will pan out. Crowley will take Dean back to hell.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I agree that Dean never wanted to be a demon. But! Now that he’s become one, that he’s not Dean anymore, will he still know or care that he didn’t want that? In my opinion he shouldn’t care or it would soften the impact of him been one. But Cain seemed pretty normal, too much so, for a knight of hell none the less! So I have my doubts that the writers will show us a very scary Deamon… but in this case I’m going to be disappointed! I’m actually hoping that Deamon will scare the crap out of Crowley!! Who’s partially human now, by the way. 🙂
I would love to see this. Remember when Dean and Crowley met Cain and Cain took Crowley’s voice away, I would love to see Dean do this!! That really freaked Crowley. Imagine what Dean could do to Crowley if he really wanted to now…
Love Aunty B xxx
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Hello again, barb, you have a valid point. While waxing poetic about characters existing in a dimension all their own it is important to realize two things, in fhe here and now, one I just learned.
(1) while reading a none fiction book a week ago I read from a prominent scholar on ancient languages and theology that information did not exist on say, a computer disk, the disk only stored the new information that came from the author’s orginal thinking. That all information that had ever existed was somewhere that was not in any material world, but existed as real in some other place. Don’t ask me where the original information came from, he is the theologian, not me.
After turning my head like Cas trying to understand Dean Speak I realized that the scholar was born into the computer, cyberspace universe where invisible information flew around all over the place, and you needed a tool, like a computer to pick it up, (born in 1950, I am forever locked out of a clear understanding of the new reality, forever horse and buggy). So where are the episodes of SUPERNATURAL, with all the imagination,rewrites, cuts, takes and actors, make-up artists, all concerned energy exist, including the yelling matches in the sealed writer’s room? Beats the heck out of me but I so not want to meet Dean and Sam Winchester walking down the street.
(2) As a writer I know the writer must imagine each character on full and minute detail if the story is to work. Writer’s rule: develop characters you can live with because they are going to be with you a very long time. They will pop into your head while driving and anyplace else and announce loud and cleat, NO THEY WOULD NOT DO THAT SO JUST FORGET THAT SISTER. And they are right, give in and go their way.
Our beloved Dean actor has already publicly stated he does not like a demon, dark, Dean, he knows Dean, and this is not Dean. An actor can not be believable trying to do this. If Dean he is screaming in both ears of the actor THAT AIN’T ME (my paraphrase, not the actor’s). It will not work. The actor did say he trusted the writers and they all would work something out. His response sounded like unpleasant worry to me, as in, mental pain. But the actor did not tell me that, so I am doing that most foolish of things–assuming I know what another person is feeling and thinking, and not minding my own business.
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I think he died probably lost his soul or maybe not? I think this will put some new life back into the show. Will Dean have the same red energy as Cain now? Will Dean be in more control of his own self? will he banish the blade, like Cain did?
There are so many questions that are floating around about these same points. I hope in some ways Dean still has his soul. As there is a chance that Sam might be able to reach out to him, and pull him back. I think a lot don’t want Dean going totally dark, as he’s the human one, the one that keeps everyone safe. Some are saying he is like Cain, and is as strong if not stronger than Cain. As the blade resurrected him. I can’t wait to see what the writers do with this and how they do work their way out of it.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Here we all set in sack cloth and ashes. Do the CW people know what they have brought about among the fans? How many of us grieve as though a real family member has died, not peacefully, surrounded by a loved one, but by foul means on some lonely field. Forsaken after laying down his life for people unknown to him. Even the actor brothers are caught up in this, saying they hate scripts were Sam and Dean fight. Writers, cast and actors have accomplished what other TV and movies strive to and failed, often miserably. They deserve our praise and respect.
I think sometimes our team do research what the fans think. And I think last year they did hear our cries. That Dean deserved his own arc. We got what we wished for, and sadly Dean died. The boys do dislike the scripts sometimes and I if I recall have made their feelings known to whom ever. And have altered scripts to suit their characters too.
This is what literature is meant to do, and I say, over the course of a decade SUPERNATURAL has risen to literature rank. Writers, directors, producers would be wise, especially in this social media age, to respect their watchers. At 64 I am old enough to remember TV programs that had a loyal following, and actors and cast dedicated to the program that were canceled due to ratings or the slot. It may be that 10 season is the natural ending of this program, and that is a matter different from ill regard for dedicated watchers who share in the drama.
I’ve known some of my own personal favorite shows to get canceled too. I remember those days, and I think the producers are wising up to our demands and they do listen to us on occasion. Which has been wonderful to watch. They need to be careful as fans could leave, and have left in the past. As ratings have proved this fact. I think SPN as a while yet to run, and I think its longevity is its key, and that it all helps to produce such a great show.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I hope the show goes past 10 seasons. It will be so hard to see it end. It will be like losing an old friend. Southwest, we are near the same age, Im 58 so I remember all the old programs that left us.
I so agree barb, your ten years older than me 😉 I am SO attached to this show, it will be like going through a grieving process for me when it ends. I am terrible during hiatus’s I am moody and snappy so god knows what I will be like when it does end. I am trying not to think too hard about it. I hate show endings. But the boys did talk about making movies of SPN at the convention at the weekend so this looks definite. Yeah!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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When the last episode of the last season airs, I’m gonna sit down with a couple of cocktails and ( figuratively) pour out a lil’ liquor for my boys. I’m probably going to be in tears. I’m sure whatever happens will be epic. (Remember the end of M.A.S.H.? I bawled like a baby.)
The one thing I remember about MASH is that haunting TV theme ….
Love Aunty B xxx
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“When the last episode of the last season airs, I’m gonna sit down with a couple of cocktails and ( figuratively) pour out a lil’ liquor for my boys. I’m probably going to be in tears. I’m sure whatever happens will be epic. (Remember the end of M.A.S.H.? I bawled like a baby”
Sounds like a great plan to me!
DITTO!! I don’t drink but I will find something special to replace the alcohol with. I wished some of us could watch it around a huge TV screen in a pub some where. That would be awesome!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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So totally agreed! I am 51 and have never been so caught up with a TV show like this. I used to laugh at the Trekkies and Star Wars fans but now I understand why those fans are so loyal. Supernatural has the BEST storylines EVER. The general tv audience has no idea what they are missing because SPN should have 10 million viewers each episode. Also, I think that Carver is geared up to take the show past season 10. The president of CW is a huge fan of the show, SPN gets the numbers for the entire network and the principle actors are still on board. I think if the show goes beyond 10, then the contracts and storylines may be different to allow Jensen and Jared time to do other projects, but Jensen is mid 30s and his time to become a hot commodity in Hollywood may be dwindling. He is a very handsome and well built man but Hollywood is what it is. I would hate to see him leave SPN and show up as the lead in some cheesy tv drama aka Captain Kirk becoming TJ Hooker. But a job is a job…… I am babbling now, so let me move on!
Another great fan fiction to read is the Brothers Blood series found on Archive of Our Own. The authors are Stormagedden and diana_lucifera. It is an ongoing series but it currently has over 200000 well written words in the story. Most of the series is rated T for general audiences but part 9 of the series, entitled Father’s Gun, is rated E for the violence.
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I started reading that. It is another Wincest series (I just thought I’d throw that in because some people have objections to slash and/or incest stories) and the premise is that Dean gets bit/bled like a billion times by vampires, Sam finds him and does a direct blood transfer. Does that mean Dean has demon blood too now? John appears to be freaked out at the prospect.
Well written, well-plotted, good dialogue. Sort of follows the first season but John is there watching Sammy like a hawk.
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All of these characters I know from film, tv, books, literature, comics flip through my mind, each unique, and lively as people. In some part of our mind or soul we keep them there, and part of our brain is locked in its black box and doesn’t know the difference.
Let me tell you a little secret if you promise to offer a tiny smile. Read C. S. Lewis when he speaks of people being given by God the power to make tiny little real things as a kind of practice until in the real world, the one after we leave these three dimensions behind and go to, there we can make our own reality like the Divine does. Now we are only playing with color crayons on coloring pages practicing and we are allowed to love each drawing and tape it to the frig door. I sure our God, our Divine parent, is just as proud of these drawings and cherishes each one as we do our own children’s.
Let me whisper another little secret to you that you may not know unless you read comics, such as myself. Comic books are years if not generations ahead of current times. Readers and comic writers, word printers and artist stand outside of the common world and create where people are going because comic are written free of the here and now. It’s kind of like going to fairy land inside of book that looks too flimsy to hold it’s own universe. Comic makers will tell you in private, that all the characters are as real as you and me, but exist in different dimension than we. I know other writers feel this way ever so slyly. I don’t know about other types of artists, you will have to ask them if they too look over their shoulder and say to just no one at all, well maybe.
A creation is a creation. The day SUPERNATURAL aires it’s last program I will be dashed into mourning, real, full scale grief and I will suffer long and hard, and I do not even want to think about it, because death is death and this world.was not created for any kind of death, even death of make-beliieve.
So my good fellows, as a military unit does at their first reunion, let us lay aside a bottle of fine Spirits and set the bottle back to gather dust year after year as we return to sing and tell old tales, until the last man standing opens that bottle and drinks the final toast.
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“A creation is a creation. The day SUPERNATURAL aires it’s last program I will be dashed into mourning, real, full scale grief and I will suffer long and hard, and I do not even want to think about it, because death is death and this world.was not created for any kind of death, even death of make-beliieve.”
True this!
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I had a long, drawn out comment almost completed last night and I lost it somehow before I added it! Oh well.. I was, and continue to be, very saddened by the finale. I guess I just really hate the idea of Dean being a demon. I have been reading a lot of posts and it seems most fans are excited about the story lines this opens up, etc. I am glad that people are excited and I will never stop watching no matter what, BUT I just feel kind of like I am grieving for the Dean I love. I am sad for Sam and what this will do to him. I hope Cas can get his grace back– Hope he can help Sam cope. I think it will all be on Sam to save Dean. I don’t know what saving him will end up meaning though.
I don’t think its Dean becoming a demon most are excited about, its about Jensen having an arc all to himself. Which many claim was a long time coming. Last year on IMDb thread after thread hashed out their same cries, myth arc for Dean. Did the writers read their pleas. I think so. I think they took it to heart and finally bought that mantle back home to Dean. I think Dean being a demon is as dark as Dean could possibly go, which is exciting in itself. Sam’s had a supernatural arc for so long now, it just seems fair to offer one to Dean too. I am so desperate for Sam to save Dean. I think Sam needs to do this whilst he’s got the chance too. I wouldn’t over worry as I am pretty sure Dean will come back. They won’t leave him a demon for ever. Sam seems to be coping well considering and by the looks of things he hasn’t gone off the rails this time around. He’s pretty stable.
I also realized that the finale made me think a lot about what is truly evil. Somehow I can accept Dean’s loss of control and total brutality when killing with the blade more easily than the manipulating, premeditated lying to obtain their selfish endgames that Metatron and Crowley engage in. Anyway, I think I may have to take a break and read a long, fun novel this summer to take my mind off of all this for awhile. Anyone else feel this way?
I am mixed about it. I had a feeling it would be predictable. But was saddened that we lost Gadreel, and Metatron lived and the little runt killed Dean with the help of the angel tablet. I am fuming at Crowley for getting Dean this far, and I totally leave all this crap at his door. How he treats Dean worry’s me, how Dean will cope with the reality that Crowley has him. He might not, Crowley might disappear without Dean. But I think he will take Dean off some where and hold him hostage for the duration until Sam locates him. It was a very sad finale. I would have liked a bit more brotherly moments, to sort out the angst. But I did love it as I always do. Don’t give up hope, just yet!!
Love Aunty B xxxx
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” I just feel kind of like I am grieving for the Dean I love.”
THIS
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I’m in full wondering mode too. Can’t imagine how they’re going to play Deamon! It was said that the brothers would solve their issues in S9, and they did, but if Deamon isn’t anything like the Dean we know that would neutralize the brothers reunion. In this case we’ll see more angst and drama (not that I’m displeased). So I’m wondering if Deamon, as every good demon would do, will lie to Sam and play old Dean (drawing a parallel with soulless Sam), maybe to favour Crowley in whatever it is that he does (collecting souls??). But my wish would be to see, finally, a Dean free of the guilt and the loathing. Pure, wild, and, for once at least in his new not-life, selfish like there’s no tomorrow! But he has no goal and if he becomes like this he needs someone to lead him, like dear old Crowley! He can’t just go around on a rampage, slayering people, can he?
He can’t which is why I think Crowley will have Dean locked in a cage just like the boys locked him up for three months. I am certain this is Crowley’s pay back. What other reason would Crowley have gone to all this trouble and stuck his neck out if there wasn’t anything in it for him. I don’t want any more lying. I don’t want a full season of Dean and Crowley either. I need to see the brothers on the same page again. And I so want Sam to get Dean back.
About Dean’s soul I’m not worried: I’m quite sure he’ll be cured through some version of the trials but I’m also quite sure that he’ll die too in the process, because Dean actually died before becoming a demon and I don’t see the passage from demon in a corpse (Dean woke up but his wounds didn’t heal!) to breathing human in a corpse.
If it is through a version of the trials, I don’t want Sam to die. Not again! Grampa Samuel had a cure for vamps when Sam let Dean turn into one. I am wondering if there is some cure like this around. There must be an answer some where in the MOL bunker and Sam has to find it. I think curing a demon is a bit obvious and would Sam catch Crowley just to humanize him further. Would this get Dean back if he holds Crowley captive again? There just going to go around in circles.
Anyway, I think that everything depends on how many seasons the show has left. There can’t be anything bigger than Dean going dark side, can it? And so Dean’s salvation has to play out in function of the end of the Show. The story would come full circle and the brothers would be even (Sam accepts death through the trials to save just Deans soul). Both brothers go to heaven. Or get born again in a world without monsters (hell gates are closed). I can’t think of a different ending: they have to go together to be at peace once and for all! Carver, when he took the show in S7, said he planned 3 years… that makes S10 the last one. But, who knows, maybe he changed his mind! Anyway, I’m really excited! They can do so much with this twist! Just hope really, really hard they’re not going to screw everything up 😛
As long as they don’t take the arc away from Jensen, I think many fans will be happy with this. He even said as much at the convention this weekend. That he hopes they flesh it out and do something with it. I think season 10 will not be the last, so any scenarios we think up will probably not happen. You can bet your bottom dollar that Carver will have something up his sleeve which I think could involve Heaven. It might also put a spanner in the works for a movie as the boys were talking about this at the weekend again too. So it looks like this is more on the cards now than it was before. So I can’t see either dying if this is what they are both keen on. I think JC has been a better show-runner, and I have my faith in him he will give us something special to remember this show by, when that end does come. I have had many thoughts about this, but doubt my ideas will come true either. But am certain a twist will be guaranteed.
What about all the references to Cas being in love with humanity, but not the whole just Deans? I’m not a Destiel shipper but I couldn’t get what the writers were trying to say… I had the impression they were intentionally confusing! Not that I really care, as I said, but I can understand why some fans get overly frustrated with these strange hints.
Me neither!
Love U, Stella 🙂
Love U too Stella thanks for posting always love to hear from you.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I agree,Stella; they use dialogue which implies romantic love but then they pan back to “brotherly” affection. GIVE UP THAT KIND OF dialogue. Please. I think it’s having/ eating cake.
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You’re right! The writers are pushing it! They created this whole Dean/Cas case. Even Jensen seemed quite annoyed about it and answerd at JiBcon that he was glad there wasn’t a lot of “frendship” between him and Cas this season… That’s a shame…
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I so agree; they “pushed” the Profound Bond, I think to create buzz. It got buzz, but they aren’t prepared to REALLY go “there” and now they are stuck. So Cas and Dean are separated SO MUCH more. I loved Dean in the reaper episode, working so hard to get to Castiel. Loved it. I think a big part of his loyalty to Ezekiel/Gadreel was because E/G saved Castiel’s life WITHOUT Dean begging for it. And in Road Trip, Castiel was so understanding and forgiving of the deal Dean made with Gadreel, really. I think those are the only two times they interacted meaningfully in the whole year. Wait, Dean’s “prayer” in Episode 1 and then the phone call. And THEN he was getting beaten up by the angels to give up Castiel and he DIDN’T.
Either give us Dean/Cas as besties (sort of have Castiel as a Bobby character who loves both Winchesters equally) or intimate more “friendship” or have Castiel say that as an angel he needs a “purpose” and Dean became that purpose because God never came back and he needed something to focus on.
Fix it, writer-people.
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He he 🙂 I imagine Deamon trapped in a demon trap too, but I think/hope that Sam and Cas are going to get him first. Especially because I hope in a serious brotherly conversation (we had so little of it in S9!). Don’t know about Crowley… he’s just a mystery. Can’t think of his goals. Azazel and Lilith wanted to free Lucifer. Crowley? No idea… thinking of it, he’s quite boring! Maybe, now that he feels human emotions, he just wants a friend, a companion…? Last, when he was in the diner with Dean in DYBIM, I had this impression: like he’s curious eager to be part of the brothers adventures (maybe he’s bored too). No one noticed or thinked the same? Just hippy me? P.s. Sam has to go full MenofLetters crazy and finally find and use some of the cool magic that, was said, is hidden in the bunker!! 😉
I think this whole Dean trap was so Crowley could get his own back on the boys for keeping him locked up for three months in the Men of Letters Bunker/dungeon. Crowley really was pissed at them for taking him prisinor and letting Abaddon rule his thrown. I still strongly feel this is pay back. Crowley never does anything unless there is something in it for him. I love the guy, but he really lead Dean up the garden path here and new what he was about. I think the only part of this equation that threw me off this cent was Crowley being scared of Cain. I could never imagine Crowley being scared of anyone. At least of all another demon like himself. I hope Demon Dean does smite Crowley as he does deserve it. I don’t by this howling at the moon crap. Its just another way for him to get around the boys affections and pull the wool over their eyes.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I’m not too sure if Dean is dead or not or if he’s what Cain turned into. I am happy that I have renewed interest in the show because the second half of this season really started to drag in my opinion. The last part of the season finale through me for a loop in a good way and I am more than ready to embrace demon Dean. Hopefully we’ll see more of the Dean of old seasons 1-3, it would be interesting to have him take Crowley’s crown.
There has been a lot of talk about this, that Cain was a demon, and Dean is a mere human turned dark side. His body wasn’t hy-jacked by a demon as such. The first have if I’m honest did bore me as there were too many MOTW’s I love my myth arc as its to me what pushes the story forward. I don’t think it really started to kick off until Holy Terror when Kevin died then it was like gas on all cylinders. It did slow down for a bit, but then picked up around Blade Runners and on into Meta Fiction. But if Dean goes too dark, will we get him back? That’s my only worry. Yes I am on bored with dark Dean, as I want to see Jensen rock it! As I no he will. Having such high hopes for season 10 I hope it delivers.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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Yeah, this is confusing. I’m not sure if he’s dead as he didn’t go through the normal channels for becoming a demon.
This is want a number are thinking! This was why I put up this question…
Also I’m unsure why everyone thinks he’s Crowley’s servant. All demons still pretty much have free will. In fact free will is what sets a person on that road when in Hell, in the first place. Choosing to torture others creates a feedback loop of self loathing and hatred that feeds on itself until the persons soul just gets darker and darker.
Put it this way, I wouldn’t say Crowley is controlling Dean, but I can imagine that he wouldn’t let Dean out of his sight. Whether he keeps him locked up in a cage in hell for all eternity, Dean would be helpless and have no free will except on Crowley’s say so to do his bidding. Just like Gadreel had to with Metatron.
As a demon, Dean is still going to have free will and can choose to follow Crowley or not. That he’s evil will make his choice to be good more difficult but he’s also a demon and demons betray each other all the time. At some point, no matter how much Crowley thinks he’s in charge, I expect Dean to betray him. Crowley HOPES to control him. That’s all. He didn’t create him and he was never in charge of the knights of Hell or Cain, despite being the King of Hell. Also as the King of Hell, he was constantly being betrayed by his own demons all the time. Dean would be just one more. In fact I fully expect Dean to become Crowley’s rival for Leadership of Hell if he doesn’t get saved. Remember, most demons hate each other and are only loyal when it’s convenient. That’s been canon since season one.
As I said above, if he keeps Dean locked up just as the boys did with him for three months in a dungeon. That’s Dean’s free will taken away from him. Dean will undoubtedly be Crowley’s prisinor whether Dean likes it or not. Eventually yes, I expect Dean to betray Crowley. But I wonder what fun we will have in the mean time. What little adventures Crowley will force on Dean when the need arises. I hated the thought of this that Dean could be locked up because he’s turned into this monster. Being totally evil now, could add further complications to the mix, make him much more aggressive than he was previously. He will have two problems to face the MoC and the demonic side.
So yeah, Crowley may have orchestrated the entire thing but that doesn’t mean he controls DemonDean at all.
I strongly feel Crowley has orchestrated it. Right from that scene in the bar when he talks about the blade that he’d been searching for it for decades. He’d planned this moons ago. Why would he have searched and searched for the blade, if it meant nothing to him?
Dean and Cain are unique in that they didn’t become demons in the usual manner. They became demons bc they have that Mark and the Mark contains the power to resurrect. So this is different. Cain ,Abaddon ,and Crowley all kept a lot of their basic personalities. Crowley was a liar and a cad, Cain was a decent guy who did wrong, and idk what Abaddon was really, but she was not beholden to Cain and he made her a demon. Dean has a lot in common with Cain .he was a decent guy who tried to do the right thing, made some bad choices and he paid for it. Even if he can’t be changed back to human there’s still hope that, like Cain, he can put away the Blade and lead a decent life. Of course he could never be a Hunter again if he makes the choice to never kill so, next seasons choices are still on Dean and Sam.
Can Sam save him, and if not, can Sam’s love convince Dean to be a decent man again? Does Dean have enough love and willpower for Sam and Cas to choose to be good and give up all killing the way Cain did. Remember the huge difference between Cain and Dean, Dean’s brother is still alive. Cain had to wait centuries to meet Colette.
So does this mean that the brothers are going to be parted for ages once again? I had hoped for ages that Sam is the one who breaks him free from everything not just the Mark, there is more to play for now. Sam has his work cut out this time, and where does Cas fit into all this?
I’m greatly interested in how this is playing out next season. I can’t wait. Nearly half a year! Really!!!( Aaaggghhhh!)
I no its a long old time, and I have to find something to talk about. Not sure what that will be yet. At least we have the summer to enjoy and our DVD’s. I am re-watching season 4 at the moment Wishful Thinking, which I thought was a crappy episode. Don’t forget we also have the conventions to mull over. There is some good stuff coming out of JIBCON! Jared hurt himself and dislocated his shoulder wrestling, but he’s okay.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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So I have dried my eyes, taken a deep breathe, counted the days since Tuesday, and declared this was all just foolish grieving, only to read another an fiction and weep to hard to finish story in one reading. So on Day 7, here we go. Crowley was lonely and wanted a play mate. Had the King of Hell forgotten how obliging all the Winchesters are in hell? Each more eager to please than the other? Had he forgot how the last Knight of Hell, Abaddon, had booted him out of his kingdom and ate his Taylor sent him all but screaming in terror to the Winchester’s for aid and comfort?
So we can howl at the moon together. Yes I got this! I don’t no if I would have said both were obliging, Dean yes he even admitted to Sam that he did. But not so sure about Sam. Sam would go back to hell if it meant saving Dean. But I don’t think he really got the experience.
Now Crowley has ripped The Brothers apart sending shock waves through their universe and ours. When was the last time that has Crowley deal with Younger Brother Sam at full strength and high in full battle and avenger/savior mode? Crowley has never seen Sam in Full Mode Metal Jacket as the Trickster had in 3:11. The Trickster/Angel was taken back, even frightened to see that Dean’s reputation for being a Hunter was surpassed by his brother’s battle lust, drive, skill and rage.
I agree.
Didn’t Crowley realize taking on a grieving Angel of the Lord eager to smite the murder of the man he cared about the most in the universe was foolhardy How far would Dean’s Angel go for the Righteous Man the Angel pulled out of perdition? Does the King of Hell think Cas will fail to find his own Grace and take up this Holy Crusade? Doesn’t Crowley remember Cas body slamming him to a wall for threatening to harm the Boys when they were partners? Now all of heaven’s newly rescued angels see is their new teen idol of Castiel, and each eager to show their love and devoting by bring to justice this new threat to Heaven’s harmony. If Cas is unhappy, they are unhappy.
Its made me wonder about Cas’s grace why he’s taken so long in trying to locate the damn thing. Is this why he wants to locate Metatron? Not just to get the angels back home.
All of these threats are nothing to compare to who Crowley chooses as his new buddy. The King of Hell should have stayed lonesome on the playground. Demon Dean, trained from 4 years old to hunt now has the total selfish, ruthless, murderous attitude of a killer, the first killer of all time, in tune to the First Blade, a weapon with the power of a nuclear blast, yearning for blood, fresh and red, and dripping? Who stands in Demon Dean’s way? Crowley, the demon Dean himself had put back on the throne. Demon Dean know Crowley no longer has the power or means to kill the new Knight of Hell. Demon Dean knows who betrayed and used him in the first place
I think Crowley needs to think long and hard about this, as if he takes Dean away, which I think he will. I think the ultimate betrayal will happen. Dean will end up killing Crowley. I wonder how long he will last once Dean realizes what’s happened to him. I can’t wait to see the look on both their faces.
Demon Dean now has the ultimate killing power source in the First Blade, is unstoppable, and forever thirsty for blood. If Demon Dean realizes even a whisper of his death scene with his Sammy, as he struggles to gasp out, “I’m proud of us.” there will be no limit to Demon Dean’s lust for Crowley’s blood to run down his throat.
Again I think it will be a Swan Song moment when Dean has flashbacks of Sam and its Sam at the end of the day that saves Dean from Crowley. I think the brothers together are much more powerful than any of them have ever realized.
If I were a demon, who would I think was the most manly king, a former cross-roads-demon or their former adversary, still hot from killing Abaddon, the new Knight of Hell?
If I was Crowley I would pack a bag, slip out the back door of hell and run. He had better hope there isn’t a pissed of Bobby Singer waiting for him.
That was funny, I love the running commentary. Mark Shepherd has been made series regular next season, so hedging our bets, does this look bad for Dean? More episodes of Dean and Crowley? Where does all this leave poor Sammy. Maybe Abaddon could come back from the dead, and surprise them both!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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Amen! It’s the reason I think Dean will turn on him. Crowley didn’t possess enough juice to kill Abaddon, which is why he suckered Dean into it. Now Abaddon is dead and Dean did that while he was STILL human. Apparently the sheer amount of will and power Dean displayed while doing so didn’t make an impression on Crowley at all. It should have.
Exactly!! Crowley new exactly what he was up to and that he’d been planning this for decades hunting for the blade to kill Abaddon. I don’t think he realized early on that Dean would be the one to kill her. But you can bet your bottom dollar that when Dean was in his sights he went for him, as a means to an end. I fear for Dean next season, as I wonder what Crowley will make Dean do.
And as much as Crowley likes to make fun of Moose, he’s in the spit now because he has never been on the receiving end of FullOnMoose like the Trickster and Lilith. Crowley has definitely bitten off too much this season.
I think Crowley has made Dean look stupid. I thought Dean would have put up much more of a fight than this, that he was taken in by Crowley and easily lead. Just like Sam was with Ruby. Crowley is so cunning because the writers allow him to be. He’s been with us since season 5 now, and I think on more than one occasion he’s made the boys look a laughing stock. I hope Dean is the one who takes Crowley out, if he ever is written out. I am so, so angry at Crowley for leading Dean into this.
Love Aunty B xxxx
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I hope this happens because that would be one interesting twist! Dean long ago let go of being the type to sit on the sidelines and take orders, now he gives them.
HI Ally welcome to the group. To me I always thought that Dean was a leader. Perhaps in the past when John was around yes he would take orders from him. But now primarily Dean has always been the one in charge. So I don’t see how this changes things really?
Love Aunty B xxxx
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Hi! Dean has always been the one in charge but for the past few seasons he has been drowning in self doubt, depression, and self loathing more so than ever before. He holds so much in and has so much on his shoulders that actually cutting loose and be a bit more carefree. I would love to see a demon Dean not only to mix up the show but to see another side of Dean that isn’t so preachy and whinny at times. Idk, I just miss the old kick butt and take names later Dean.
I feel the same, that it would be nice to see another side of Dean, the one who isn’t always so right. It would open my eyes up to see how he tackles something supernatural happening to him. He’s dealt Sam those cards start of the season now he’s in the same boat. I think the old Dean’s ship has sailed I think its a shame that soft swagger has gone and left the harbor. But who knows maybe demon Dean might give us something new to remember the old Dean by?
Love Aunty B xxx
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This episode gutted me. Dean saying he would rather die than become what he was becoming. The “I am proud of US”. Even when Sam said he lied (about being OK with Deans “mission”) and Dean said “aint it a bitch”.
I loved Crowley’s scene at the end. He really does have a weird soft spot for Dean. Oh Dean what will you do, how will you feel, when you find out you are one of the things you hunt!?
I have to assume he really died, but his soul was hijacked by the MOC and stuck back into his body as a demon. Not really sure.
That is an interesting thought. I think they talked about something similar on the board. I did love it I thought it was a typical Supernatural finale. And it had everything I expected it would except Metatron killed Dean and he is still alive. I thought Dean would have so over powered a little runt like him. But then Metatron was juicing up on the tablet, so Dean’s luck run out. I think he has a soft spot for them both, with their nick names and all. Crowley is like a magnet to them, he can’t stop himself from getting involved. BTW barb on IMDb yesterday I gave you a shout out, did you see it?
Love Aunty B xxx
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I didnt see the shout out! I have been so busy since I started working that I only have a small window of time to look at the board so I just read 3 or 3 threads and then I have to move on.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460681/board/nest/230228746
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I saw the Jensen panel where he talked about him and Cas. I think his whole explanation is pretty much that DEAN-who he knows inside and out-isn’t romantically attracted to Cas-and who would know better than him? Unless the writers explicitly write it, he feels that’s not a “Dean-like thing”.
^^^ THIS!! They are CLOSE friends in fact I would go as far as ‘Brothers’. As Dean did say last season in the crypt we’re ‘family’. Cas has always used this term ‘profound bond’ does he even understand what this really means. Do angels understand us this well? They are very close, but as far as romantically is concerned it as NEVER entered my head, I have never been a shipper. I think Dean is portrayed as straight, and for a long time thought he is curious about the opposite sex, nothing more. Where shippers get this romantic notion from god only knows. But I’ve never seen it, nor want to on the show.
I do believe he does feel that they have a special friendship/familial bond-as do I.
Spot on!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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