http://lovedsam.tumblr.com/post/75679159492/if-you-love-someone-let-them-go-yeah-really
See what you think as I think it gives us something else to talk about, and let me know your thoughts. I haven’t found much new material at the moment to ponder over. But am looking around the net. This is particularly interesting from both brothers perspectives.
A Blog devoted to J2 and Friends! 
Enjoyed the article and found myself in much agreement but not totally. Love means different things to different people based on their individual interpretations of same events. Sam knows how to say goodbye whether it is Amelia or Dean. He has proven that by his actions. Perhaps because he said goodbye when he ran away to Flagstaff and then to Stanford. He can make a break. When the Trickster tries to teach Sam that he cannot change Dean’s fate, Sam does not want to give up on Dean and look at what he turns into without Dean – he turns into Dean, to honor Dean. It is a way to keep Dean close without bringing him back. He processes grief differently than Dean. He is also depressed, frustrated that “nothing good” has come out of his being alive – all the good was sacrificed when he gave up the trial for Dean. And that Dean has not kept his word since the church (not that Dean had a choice with Gadreel). Sam tries to improve after each loss, but he is struggling with his own guilt and loss of Kevin at “his hand” so to speak. Even though Dean wants to bare responsibility for it, Sam always wants to repent for acts he does when under the influence.
I agree with you. I think this is what he’s trying to get across to Dean, that he can say goodbye if he has too, I don’t know if Dean can? I find it so sad that all the saving they’ve done the still think its not enough, and they still question it. So what hasn’t Dean kept his word about since the church? Not letting Sam die? These boys are so messed up and have so much to get through are they going to get back to what they once were? Has so much supernatural come between them that they can’t stand the sights of each other any longer. That they can’t bond as brothers because of the supernatural?
Dean has said goodbye for someone else’s good at the cost of his own happiness as well- see Lisa and Ben, but when it comes to Sam, well that’s a different tug of the heart. Birth order and responsibility. Dean has bared the hurt of a deal that saved Sam and also see this season’s Bad Boys..
What’s the old saying, blood is thicker than water. Dean has a lot of work ahead of him, and I don’t think it will be an easy road for him. I think Dean will be doing some soul searching later on. Being a dad, father and mother to Sam has been so tough on him and having this on his shoulders hasn’t been easy at the best of times. But Dean has struggled and its now showing that he’s struggled. I just hope Sam goes a bit easier on him from now on.
I don’t think that Dean really knew that Sam was ready to die- this in Sam’s head scene is ambiguous so that the writers can choose to play with it. In the past, I do remember Dean telling Sam to let him go and wanting Sam to live to an old age, but then Sam has told Dean to live an apple pie life without him so both want the other to survive- just that Sam sees his role in Dean’s life from a different perspective and thinks he knows how to move on without him. Really?
I still don’t see either of them moving on with out the other. Look at the state of Sam last season, he just bolted and ran. I think the writers do enjoy playing with the audience as I think they tell us one thing one minute, and change the tide the next. It doesn’t appear very fluent from season to season. Each season feels like a separate life time. Last season Dean wanted to die, and Sam didn’t and we’re still not sure if Sam wants to die this season or not?
Sam is ego and Dean is id. Dean was willing to let Sam go in season 8 and Sam made a decision to give up Amelia and join Dean for a greater purpose. He let him go and he came back. Sam is questioning what his life has been worth if he couldn’t close the deal in season 8, but he did choose in that church. He is reacting to not being able to control his own destiny and sees Dean as taking away that choice. How many times has Sam’s free will been fiddled with? Even in college he was set up by a demon with Jessica so that he would lose her and become a warrior. This is one more time he could not take charge. Sam’s perspective is unique to his experiences as is Dean’s. I just say the acting and script are even better than I thought if it has caused so much discussion from a final scene and the MOW is secondary. Is this a way for the writers to prepare us to let go after another season?
Yes, he did. His life I would assume would be pretty much the same if he’d stayed with Dean whether he closed the gates or not. If Sam had gone through with closing the gates he wouldn’t be here now. Unless as we may have gathered Naomi may have been lying through her teeth. But I still think Sam was in a coma, and couldn’t do jack squat about his own life as he wasn’t awake walking and talking. So how could he have had control as he wasn’t even in control of his facilities any way. Sam’s life as you say has always been controlled by something supernatural any way so why is this any different? I can’t see them letting Sam die for real can you? Geez we’d never hear the end of it. But I can see Sam dying in the last ever episode if this is anything to go by if he’s wanting Dean to let him go.
OK. enough ranting. Bring on “Captives”. Sam once again gets to say a line that would be okay for Dean to utter but not so much Sam so are the roles becoming less defined? Oh Sam- what tough decision will you have to make or Dean will you really make the same decision again now that you know how Sam feels? The good fight the Winchesters do accomplish does make a difference- it offers hope. Where there is life there is hope.
A link for the next episode went up and already the Sam bashing has begun. I tried to look for the link but its got lost in the mounting pages. I have seen the boys with silver tape across their mouths, and I think they’ve been taken captive. I assume its a Cas centric episode as Bart is back and in cahoots with him. I did read today they have a history, which will be revealed. I hope things do sink in with Dean, and boy it still feels tense in that clip. Roll on Tuesday. Please let there be less angst ….
Love Aunty B xxx
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This is the WHOLE quote-
THE ORIGINAL VERSION: If you love something, Set it free… If it comes back, it’s yours, If it doesn’t, it never was yours.. So how does this apply to their situation? I think what she was saying was if you love someone then set them free. If they love you enough they will come back.
I also don’t agree that Dean knew Sam wanted to die. At the church he stopped the trials which was, to me and to Dean, Sam wanting to live. If I remember correctly Dean was never in his head so he didn’t hear the conversations Sam was having i his head. At no point do I remember Sam saying to Dean that he was ready to die.
There are bits of that which didn’t agree with me either. I am in the middle of season 8 and am still getting my head around it. As I don’t think Sam ever wanted to die, it was Dean who saw it as a suicide mission and Sam was going to show Dean the light. Dean saw Sam with the wife and kids but he didn’t. He never thinks he will see old age. Zeke took Dean inside Sam’s head in 9 x 01 to show him that Sam was thinking about ending it all. Sam was out of his head in a coma, so I don’t think without re-watching he said it to Dean.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Yeah. Sam didn’t say that until just the last couple of episodes. As far as Dean understands things, Sam wanted to live. He said yes in Sacrifice and then acquiesced to Zeke too. Was Dean there when he said yes to Zeke? On this, I’m totally unclear.
I am almost up to watching this episode on DVD tonight/tomorrow as this is still confusing me. I am penning an article about both of them wanting to die season 8/9 as it stands around canon it doesn’t make sense. Hang on tight for a day or so and will publish this article.
I didn’t get the impression that the friction between them was about what happened in Sacrifice though. I thought the writers either made yet another error or that Sam doesn’t have a good memory of what happened at the end of Sacrifice or that Sam thinks Dean tricked him then too. I’m not sure which of those I believe and I’m pretty sure it will probably never be made clear to me either.
No, it is about what happened in Sacrifice. Everything leading up to that deal is what Sam is talking about a couple of weeks ago. I have been reading the Winchester Family business and its making a lot more sense now from their comments.
Some of these writers need to watch the show and get their stories straightened out.
I think they write for the moment and not the whole compendium of years worth. I think in relation to the boys Jeremy has tried to keep true this season on the whole. He’s looked at the co-dependency which was always a sore point to us the viewer.
Love Aunty B xxx
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My recollection is that in the church, Dean promises honesty among other things to Sam. Dean talks him “off the ledge” by letting him know that the trials are probably Metatron’s sham and so his death would be meaningless and only cause his death without the intended result. They can do more good together in the end if Sam survives. Sam’s initial response to his impending death is “so?” and is our first glimpse of a broken Sam who thinks his self worth is so low that his death would be okay. This is a Sam miles away from the Sam who saw the light and wanted to take Dean to it with him in the barn Sam accepted the trials. Dean does talk him back with what I thought was a heart felt brother to brother speech. It seemed sincere. So yes, Sam chose life in that moment IMHO. After that Sam seemed to take a deep breath against the Impala as angels fell. His insides are so burned out that he is comatose thus he is in the hospital on life support. The medical question is whether or not there are signs of brain activity as the machines are doing the physical maintenance but brain activity comes from within. Dean would have no way to know that Sam would choose death as that scene in Sam’s head is left shady for the viewer so the writers could expand the Dean chose for Sam just like he did when he got Death to return Sam’s damaged soul. In both cases, Sam was not in a good state-either or conscience deprived or O2 deprived to make his own decision. I guess hunters do not use advance medical directives. So Dean did what Dean does, and now he is dealing with the consequences, but I still think there is something dark going on with Sam. Writers are playing with us again. Gotta love ’em.
I believe this too, that Dean didn’t know until Gad showed Dean in Sam’s head what he was thinking of doing. It wasn’t until that point he decided to think about doing the deal to save Sam. If Gad hadn’t of shown him, would Dean have made that deal any way. He was already half way there by contacting Gad in the hospital church. Sam wasn’t in his right state of mind as he was comatose so he couldn’t have made that decision. Debbab you think there is something dark going on with Sam spill, is Gad still in him as they didn’t get all the grace out? or are you thinking of something else? I am loving this season a lot more than I thought I would. Last season Sam was on the raw end this season Dean is on the raw end. At least Jeremy is balancing those scales. Having read a lot of TWFB comments favor appears on Sam’s side and yes he is a lot more mature. But do we like Carver’s Sam?
Love Aunty B xxx
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Where did you read some of those posts? I’d love to see them.
Need you ask, my favorite haunting ground IMDb someone started a thread with this link that they’d found. I really got into it.
Basically the writer is saying that In Sam’s mind – the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. Classic Trek. And Dean is the philosophy of the opposite of the that – the needs of the one are more important than the many. What we seem to have are competing philosophies.
I think the boys are opposites any way. That if they were the same it would be totally boring as hell. There were just some area’s I really found were true and others not so much. But its great to spread your mind and read what others might be thinking.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Totally agree with this beautifully written tumblr post! I think it says exactly where things are at. Back to what I was thinking when I was reading posts on character growth for Sam. And back to season 1’s statement: When this is over, you have to let me go.
I thought it was nicely written too, with thought behind it. I can imagine Sam dying in the end and Dean having to let him go naturally. I think this will break Dean’s heart. I think Sam has been strong and is trying to sort out their lives the best he can.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I agree with your sentiments, however, I think there will be a twist at the end of the series. I think Dean is going to die, again, and Sam will be left to “carry on” alone and will truly live a normal life. Or they will die together and end up in Winchesterland. I do not think that Dean can change enough by the end of season 10 to be OK if Sam dies. Again, this whole topic is making me cry so I will end on that note.
I thought the opposite I think that Sam will die, and Dean will be left with his usual dilema, and won’t bring him back. I would love to happen that dream he thought about with the motor-bike it was so sad, but I can picture it in the back of my mind. Something Jared also said years back that he would like to see the character of Sam die, and I’ve never forgotten this. That he started off as the primary character and he doesn’t live to see old age 😦
Love Aunty B xxx
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I’m not very good with predictions but I think the two of them will die together and go to Winchesterland too. And I think whatever happens, Sam will choose, once again to be with Dean. I think Dean will try to talk him out of whatever it is and I think Sam will sacrifice something to save Dean or be by his side and make it clear that’s why. Sam May be forced to do this because he’ll be unable to save Dean. I like the symmetry of that scenario anyway.
There are so many different ways the show could end, and guessing is all part of that fun. That day however scares the hell out of me, as I would hate to view either brother dying on screen, it would totally break my heart for ever. The nag in the back of my head also spurs me on thinking if either or both die what happens to movies etc. Yes they can be bought back, but we know what happens to Bobby on this show how his recurrence cheapens the moment. I just hope what ever they come up with its not the usual ‘We have work to do’ and drive off into the sunset, I will throw up. I want them to be much more creative than this. I know its in them!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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Still cannot get the picture of Butch Cassidy and the Sun-dance Kid jumping into oblivion out of my mind. The business part of my brain says the writers have to leave it open to interpretation so that possible movies, limited runs, and other money makers can be possible. The long time viewer knows that Dean and Sam can always be resurrected by a good script in that universe. The SPN addict never wants it to end. The realist in me knows it has to end (J2 will move on for a variety of reasons whether it be professional fatigue, salary disputes, other opportunities, age appropriateness for the roles, etc.((although some shows go 15 years))) and I am always aware of symmetry which is why I feel that season 9 sets up the perhaps final choice/sacrifice for season 10. All speculation. Just enjoying the anticipation of squeezing out a few more episodes.
Its a novelty idea, and one that could work. As you say and I’ve thought about either or both dying about movies etc after the event. Even if they are bought back, how well can it be done, as I said to Ikeke its already cheapened Bobby’s exit Death’s door which is by cast and crew one of the best SPN episodes ever. It all does depend on them, as the powers that be are happy in TV land, and want it to go on as long as the J’s do. But family commitments is in the sky now where it wasn’t when they first started. Also their not getting any younger, how fitter they are in a couple or five years time also depends on their strengths. I don’t want it dragging or drawing out, just because they have the stories to tell. Sometimes shows can drag because people haven’t the heart to pull the plug. Jensen did say if the stories are good he will continue. But I always in the back of my mind want it to end on a high, I never want it getting silly or stale.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I am that SPN addict that can watch forever. I am purposely not re-watching season 9 episodes on Hulu so I can at least have 2 seasons I do not know like the back of my hand. But I am looking forward to the brothers making up and moving on. I agree that if there is money to be made, then both brothers will be resurrected. If the PTB had any sense, they should be scouring the earth looking for two actors with similar chemistry to take over for J2. If the show is resurrected in 10 years in HBO or Showtime, then it will be another gold mine. So much stuff that could not be shown on CW like real gore/horror aspect will be perfect for cable.
I wouldn’t want a take-over I don’t think the show would ever be the same. Well they’ve actually done this as they have the spin-off and recently told us who the two new leads are. That is if the spin-off counts. The J’s chemistry is very rare, and to find charisma like theirs and those looks could be an impossible task for the casting team.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I think the Star Trek and Star Wars franchises show that recasts can really work. I love the new James Kirk and Spock and I watched the original show as a kid. Perhaps 10 years isn’t long enough since the audiences watching the new versions of these characters are from a different generation, but the story of Sam and Dean is so compelling that I believe that another pair of well chosen actors can do the story justice (20 years later or something). Yes, J2 are amazing and will always be Sam and Dean for me but I think their story is going to live on and reach cult status just like Star Trek. The show already has a cult like following which will only grow after the series goes off the air. So much more can be written but J2 can only play these roles for so long. Personally, I think the show could go to season 15 because Dean would be 40 and his father was at least mid to late 40’s and still hunting when he died. As long as the writing is good, I will watch.
I get what your saying, but I think a show can drag and I don’t want this to happen to SPN. I can see it get to 12 maybe 15 at a push if its still fresh and they are knocking out good scripts then I will watch. I will support my boys until the end no matter what. But I don’t want the grind getting it down and for the show to loose its heart. Longevity can ruin a good show. Star Trek as a franchise is a different story. They are sequels with different sets of actors at its helm. But I could maybe get my head around a new set of actors if the chemistry is believable and the stories are top notch. We do have a cult following and a strong fan base. Do you mean Jensen’s father not Dean’s father? Alan Ackles is an actor who has been on the show? confused there as to who you are speaking of.
Love Aunty B xxx
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I fervently hope this is true. After all if Firefly could do it after having had only one half of a season, and Farscape got one after only four seasons, then surely us fans can get a made for TV movie or something off the ground.
I have heard so much about Firefly but never saw it. I know Mark Sheppard was on it, and have seen some of his clips but that’s been it. I saw the first season of Farscape but found it boring and stopped watching it. I do remember the lead was hot!
I’d love to see this on the big screen, though, as I love Serenity. And the brothers wouldn’t even have to die to do this. (My favorite scenario- having both of them trapped alive in some alternate dimension, like Hell, and having to fight their way out of it. That would look awesome on the big screen.) All our favorites could show show up Meg, Bobby, Rufus, Ellen, Jo, Lucifer – it could be done.
I actually like the sound of this. This is my big fear if they do kill either or both of but of course there are supernatural ways around this. So all wouldn’t be lost. I think this was what we were hoping for last year, and we got the Amelia saga!
Love Aunty B xxx
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“I’d love to see this on the big screen, though”
I’d love an SPN movie!
I think secretly we’d all love to see this. But its such a long way away.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Not sure the network would support a movie for worldwide distribution at this point. Movies are a financial gamble and although fandom is vocal, studio looks at numbers.(Of course a SPN movie would be better than most of the pap that represents horror genre in the movies now, but current stuff costs are low budget mostly). Maybe after the series is off for a while and the cult reputation grows, the studio might support such a project. Then it becomes a matter of who is available to act in a movie, as life goes on after shows disappear from the small screen and availability time wise is trickier. Shatner and Nimoy seemed to survive rather nicely without apparent damage by known roles. J2 are particularly talented and perhaps need to stretch their creative muscles, but then I think about David Caruso’s disastrous departure from TV until he landed another leading role. I can envision J2 in a number of different roles, but for now Sam and Dean live on. 🙂
David Caruso’s name came up on a thread on the board about Jensen saying something like he wished he had this guys salary. So he speaks of this guy, never heard of him. I think movies are a gamble but the boys have such great chemistry and charisma I am so sure it would pay off just for this reason alone. Think of the audience that wouldn’t have seen or known of them otherwise. As another door closes, another opens!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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“Personally, I think the show could go to season 15 because Dean would be 40 and his father was at least mid to late 40’s and still hunting when he died. As long as the writing is good, I will watch”
Me too!
So are we all banking for another five years. I wish I could see into the future!!
Love Aunty B xxx
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Selfishly I could watch forever as long as the story arcs were creative. Yes, Dean could be in his 40’s and be a hunter= that is not all that old. and Sam is only 4 years younger(Dean;s current age). So numerically it could work but, I seriously doubt J2 would want to stay with Supernatural that much longer as in LA the expiration date of actors for lead roles comes much sooner than for hunters. While both leads are contractually engaged for season 10, anything that follows would probably have greater demands contractually and it would seriously depend on what other offers are hitting their agents and how much the network is willing to shell out for salaries etc.TV is after all a business. Even with decent ratings for the CW. both leads have been quoted as saying they have families to worry about now so does that mean that they want more bucks, more free time, or want to leave to pursue careers in other projects. Either way, I am sure they have both struck lucrative contracts for this little show and are probably financially free to have a pick of projects at this stage and age. I believe the spinoff at this time is a trial balloon to see if the fans will stick with the MOW concept without the brothers to take the place of Spn should the series end next year. Sort of like methadone. Not quite the real drug, but feeds the need. Jury out on the spinoff until I see a few episodes. It will depend on the conflict that is created btwn the leads. I don’t begrudge them the salaries or perks from conventions as many enjoyable hours of entertainment and involvement have ensued from their talents, but I get that after 10 years they may want to explore other career options. For me J2 will be the only possible Sam and Dean. With Star Trek you could suspend disbelief in seeing younger versions of Kirk and Spock. Not possible for Sam and Dean as we have watched them grow up so nowhere to go unless it is an alternative universe and then really could you suspend your disbelief? I just hope that when the end does happen, it is one we can accept with dignity and that the brothers act brotherly.
That thought actually hadn’t crossed my mind. That they’ve made the spin-off to see how well it sits with the fans. Meaning if it does, then SPN might be no more. Cause aren’t spin-off’s usually penned after its main show has finished airing, or whilst its still airing? I love your last line that the brothers act brotherly. I think that’s such an apt saying it could be their last words. I just hope it isn’t a lame ending then I will be happy. 🙂
Love Aunty B xxx
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“I believe the spin-off at this time is a trial balloon to see if the fans will stick with the MOW concept without the brothers to take the place of Spn should the series end next year”
I don’t care how good the spin-off is, it cant replace Sam and Dean. will give it a try but I cant imagine a show that I would love the characters as much as SPN
I’m with you barb. Nothing can replace the original concept. I so have my doubts about any spin-off as it generally flops. But I can only test the waters and see for myself, but will be surprised if its any good.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Hi Barb: So much in agreement with/u that nothing can be as special as Supernatural. I can’t say that about other spin offs which have been good and sometimes better but here Sam and Dean are the heart and soul. It may be good but never better. Held captive by their codependency.
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