I found this post over on IMDb this morning and I have to say it bought it all home to me loud and clear that Sam truly does love Dean and has done his best in the past to save him come what may. The writing also bought me to tears, and moved me. So why has Sam in the past had a hard time from fans? and why have the writers given Sam the short straw? We know in our hearts that Sam is not as popular as Dean, so in your eyes why do you feel this? What could the writers maybe do to change Sam, if they need to change anything? So what do you think about Sam below, would love to know what you think, and where you think the writers have gone wrong, if you think they have?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460681/board/flat/221726524?p=1
- Let’s begin with looking back at season 8 and then earlier seasons. It’s head canon for me that when Sam hit that dog (as we saw in season 8) he was really out of control and suicidal because he thought he had lost Dean forever. What happened after that, prolonged his life and then Amelia came in to play and that’s why he told her at some point “you saved me”. They were both broken and so many things had be taken from the both of them. They knew what pain and loneliness felt like. I do NOT ship them. No chemistry at all between them. But I do understand their relationship and I have learnt to accept Sam’s reasons for not looking for Dean. I do believe he had to look for him. But he had been through so much before the whole ordeal with Dick Roman. Ever since he got his soul back he was tormented by his memories of Hell and then he had to endure sleep deprivation and not being able to tell what’s real and what’s not for so long. He almost died in that mental hospital and not much time later he lost his brother. No wonder “HIS WORLD IMPLODED” as he put it. What he should have done was sit and talk with his brother and explain to him all these things in detail. Because for all Dean knew, Sam just bailed. Took off and found a girl. Sam didn’t make Dean understand. Dean would have listened, he loves Sam more than anything and he would have listened. That’s why Sam took on the trials. He wanted to show Dean that he puts HIM first. That he wanted to carry their burden so that Dean didn’t get caught in the crossfire. And he suffered for that as well.
- He did save Dean and once again he ended up dying. And when he was dying, he wanted to let go so that Dean had a better chance in life. He thought he was only holding Dean back. He told Death he didn’t want anyone to get hurt because of him (DEAN). He made clear that nobody could make a deal for him (DEAN). So…THAT’S HOW MUCH SAM LOVES HIS BROTHER Now.
For some FURTHER evidence throughout the years.
- Sam did not give up when Dean was dying in “Faith”
- Sam came back for Dean in “Scarecrow”
- Sam joined Dean’s side when he was pointing the Colt at John who was possessed by YED at that moment.
- Sam did not give up for 1 second trying to look for ways to bring Dean out of his coma.
- Sam made Dean promise him he’d kill him if he ever turned dark sidebecause he never wanted to hurt Dean. (Playthings)
- Sam searched for Dean and saved him when he got jumped by the Djinn and he was trapped in that dreamworld
- Sam tried EVERYTHING, searched for months for ways to change Dean’s deal in season 3.
- Sam had to watch his brother die more than 100 times in Mystery Spot and then hunted alone for months before he managed to convince the trickster/Gabriel to bring Dean back.
- Sam, tried to sell his soul for Dean. He tried to deal but no demon would deal. (I know what you did last summer). He didn’t even want a year in exchange
- Sam wanted to kill Lilith to avenge his brother. To get payback for what she did to his brother. Before Dean came back from Hell this purpose was the only thing keeping him from suicide. That’s why he drank Demon Blood. He was willing to destroy himself in order to kill the bitch and end it all.
- Sam left Dean in season 5 to keep him safe from HIMSELF. So that none would go after Dean because of HIM. Sam never stopped believing in Dean. Not even when Dean lost all of his faith. He brought him together when they went to get Adam even when Dean warned him he would say “YES” to Michael. Sam knew his big brother you make the right call in the end.
- Sam made the ultimate sacrifice and jumped in the pit of Hell along with Lucifer and Michael, ending his life and saving the entire world but most of all SAVING DEAN.
and Michael, ending his life and saving the entire world but most of all SAVING DEAN.
- Sam sacrificed his sanity after he took his soul back and the wall crumbled so that he would be with his brother. I AM NOT LEAVING MY BROTHER ALONE OUT THERE (The man who knew too much)
- Sam trusted in Dean when he couldn’t tell if he was in Hell anymore or not. His STONE NUMBER ONE WAS DEAN
- Sam forgave Dean for killing Amy because he understood that Dean did what he couldn’t do and that family is there to do the “dirty job”
- Sam worked non stop with Jody to get Dean back when he was lost in the 40’s with Chronos and Eliot Ness. Once more HE DID NOT GIVE UP.
- Sam was constantly worried about Dean’s alcohol problem in season 7 and he frequently tried to reason with him And since I talked about season 8 above one last thing. In the season 9 premiere he was given a choice. Let go of the pain and the hunting life, all the troubles and the dangers and find peace and freedom in Heaven (because come on, he belongs there). OR stay and fight alongside his brother. Fight the Angels and the Demons and the Monsters and LIVE. Carry on their legacy. And guess what.
- HE CHOSE DEAN.
He chose Dean …………….
- He chose to live BECAUSE OF DEAN. And he’s happier than ever with him and their life.
- I’m sure he will forgive Dean later when he finds out about Ezekiel. He always does. He will probably get mad at first but it’s certain they’ll get over it.
He always does. He will probably get mad at first but it’s certain they’ll get over it.
So that’s it. That’s all I had to say.
and what they would clearly do for one another!
Sam and Dean love each other MORE THAN ANYONE AND ANYTHING. Nothing else in the universe can compete with this brotherly love. It’s the most powerful bond in the whole wide (fictional) world.
A Blog devoted to J2 and Friends! 
There is no SAM without DEAN and no DEAN without SAM.. That is why we all love the show.
Margarette firstly welcome to the group, and I am so with you, this show is about both brothers there would not be one without the other that is fact. As Dean said there ain’t no me if there ain’t no you, even though we later learn Gadreel said it. But it was the thought that counted, in his case.
Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment.
Love Aunty B xxx
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Bella: one of the reviewers at WFB presented an interesting theory that I know you’ll like. She thinks that Ezekiel is getting weaker. That in fact he may be too weak to leave Sam’s body, which presents an interesting idea that if Zeke cant leave Sam, then what happens to Sam? There arises a whole host of really good questions. If Zeke dies (how does an angel do that) what happens to his grace? What if hes too weak to leave and too weak to control his host? Could Sam end up with Zeke’s grace or with Angelic powers? If so then Zeke seems aware that getting trapped in Sam’s body might happen which could explain why he’s eager to leave. Hes too weak to leave as he’d be vulnerable to whoever is hunting him and Sam is such a strong host that he might end up trapped in Sam as Sam’s body keeps him alive. He might also become too weak to control Sam too.
What have I always said about Sam becoming an angel!!! This is making the story more and more interesting and thanks for sharing. I wonder if Zeke new this all along that he may never heal and he stood a better chance of kidnapping a host. It was the whole Hael thing with kidnapping Cas for his vessel that continued to make me think. I wonder if Zeke new he was dying and would never heal. The only way he could continue living was in a decent vessel, not only a decent vessel but the one and only powerful vessel. I bet this is Zeke’s favor staying within Sam permanently. Didn’t I say he would be difficult to get rid of. I bet certain fans will not like this out come one little bit. It’s Sam with powers all over again. Considering Sam didn’t want his demonic powers, he is going to be so mad over this. He’s going to like his angelic ones even less. God knows what Dean will make of it all. Making him feel ten times more guilty in allowing Zeke in, in the first place. Oh boy!!
Just food for thought. I have to admit, none of this ever occurred to me .
The reason it was brought up was because Zeke said that every use of his power makes him weaker and then last night Zeke made a special appearance to heal Sam and then disappeared. He was around just long enough for the three seconds it took to heal Sam and then it seemed like he lost consciousness. Its hard to tell because the villain hit Sam not long after this happened but Sam was conscious long enough for the villain to ask him “what are you”, and for Sam to be confused about what just happened.
This I suppose is understandable. He’s using his mojo to get the job done and is risking his own power to achieve it. The longer Zeke is inside Sam the more I thought what residue effects were being left behind in Sam. Jared said in the summer that Sam is “changing, and changing all the time”. Now this thought has never slipped far from my mind. Having anything supernatural inside him would bound to have some side effects. I think I only said last week that was Zeke molding himself into Sam locking himself in some how? Sam at the moment is carrying a powerful creature and its going to be interesting to see how Zeke pan’s out. I did read about the Chef and wondering what Sam was. So again this will know doubt send alarm bells ringing in Sam’s head. It’s only a matter of time before we see what’s really going down. I can’t wait to see this episode.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“Could Sam end up with Zeke’s grace or with Angelic powers”
I so hope not. The only person I want with angelic powers is Cas. I’ve always said I like our boys to be human-htats what makes the show so great. I cant see them making Sam an angel (canon says a human cant become an angel IIRC ) anyway because then he wouldn’t need Dean.
Sam would always need Dean no matter what happens 😉 I know your not keen on the idea barb. But when you think about it the boys are angel vessels any way. Which is why I always thought there was some higher purpose for both boys. I always imagined that the boys were gods sons, and John was God. I never believed Chuck was, and still can’t get that notion in my head. Sam has always been influenced by some supernatural power, and I can now see this happening even more. I knew Zeke was up to something, Roll on Christmas ……. It might be fun!
BTW my husband LOVED last nights episode. He even liked the poodles scene and watching it with him I did too LOL
Oh that Poodle scene didn’t go down well on the forum they hated it. I don’t think they cared for it at all. Low marks were coming in on the rate thread. I think many are saying there is too much comedy within the first part of the season. Which is a fair point to make. Glad you liked it any way. I don’t think there’s often an episode we don’t like here 😉
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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I would ignore anything coming from the threads. They complain if there’s too much comedy, they complain if there’s not enough, they whine if either brother gets screen time. It’s just one big whine festival over there. I prefer to just to ignore ALL of them. They don’t know what they want the show to do and are never happy no matter what episode it is. Are there legitimate complaints about the show? Sure. But usually the complaints are about someone’s tiny personal quirk rather than something the show actually did wrong. It’s always the same names and they don’t ever seem to have good things to say.
I don’t actually mind if anyone has powers besides Cas. I know you said you like the brothers to remain human but my argument is that Sam has never been completely human. Or at least completely himself. I’m still going to argue that we’ve never seen the real Sam. I don’t think he’ll get angelic powers the way Zeke has them. Maybe just the ability to heal himself and the occasional other person. He will not be an angel, just “infected” by an angel.
Please! This show wouldn’t be Supernatural if Sam wasn’t being possessed, infected, addicted or dying or something. Right in the first episode of season one, Sam was attacked by that ghost and since then he’s always been the show’s damsel in distress.
Also the show might tweak this season a little bit by having Sam not be mad about the angel thing. We won’t know til we get there. I’m not anxious for Sam being upset. He’ll forgive Dean as he always does. What I’m anxious for is that Dean is tearing himself apart about all this.
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“Also the show might tweak this season a little bit by having Sam not be mad about the angel thing.”
Wouldnt that be great and DIFFERENT!?
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Sorry for the typos. I was typing this out on my Kindle.
I know your kindle annoys you, so I’m aware …. 😉
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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Okay! Here goes. I’m still not entirely comfortable with this but:
A taxidermist (who makes strange animal figures) gets killed in his shop and its witnessed by his dog named General. Sam and Dean after discussing Kelvin’s hangover go on the road to check it out. (Sam reassures Dean that he feels really good and is up for it.) They get to the shop and find some red graffiti and that all of the animal insides the taxidermist likes to discard have been stolen and that the shopkeeper was constricted by something like a giant snake. The graffiti turns out to be the mark of a local animal protection organization and the people who run it also own a vegan bakery. Sam and Dean question the couple and find out that the reason they’re wearing sunglasses is because something spit venom at them.
The next night someone breaks into the animal adoption place and steals all the cats, eats one of the cats and slashes the throat of the boy on duty that night. Sam and Dean reach the conclusion that its some kind of shape shifter but not what kind. The dog named General witnessed both attacks and Sam and Dean decide that the way to find out what he saw is to use a spell to let them talk to the dog.
But its not just the dog they can talk to. The dog sounds like an older gruffer Bobby (he speaks to Dean in English). Dean finds he can talk to a lot of different animals and the dog explains that animals share a universal language. (Pay close attention to Dean when this first happens -it’s hilarious! He, scratches, he plays fetch with Sam and yells at the postman. He gets into a fight with a bird in the parking lot and almost shoots it but Sam stops him.) On their way to the kennel to question all the other dogs who witnessed the kennel attack Dean and the dog hang their head out the window.
One of the scruffy little dogs in the kennel gives them information about the killer in exchange for a belly rub from Sam. ( I almost passed out from laughter and Sam got hand cramps.) They figure out that the killer worked at a restaurant. He kills animals and eats the body parts to absorb their powers like wolf or bear or cat. Dean sets all the dogs in the kennel free.
They fight with the killer. Sam gets his throat slashed and almost dies but Zeke heals him really fast. The killer manages to knock him out anyway after asking Sam what he is. (Sam gets another clue things ain’t right.) The killer plans to eat Sam because he thinks Sam has healing powers. Dean interrupts but gets caught and tied up. He manages to work his way out of the ties and runs while the killer gives chase. In the parking lot of the restaurant all the dogs that Dean set free, attack and eat him. Dean goes back to Sam whose unconscious but once he wakes up he’s bothered by what the killer asked him. Dean starts lying but you can tell his hearts just not in it and its not entirely clear if Sam is buying his lie this time. Sam knows for sure something is wrong. He just doesn’t know what.
Tonight this episode was very funny. There were a lot of great Dean moments, especially between Dean and the dog and Dean and a random pigeon. I laughed so hard and Sam’s expressions while watching Dean act like this are precious. Their rapport in this episode is wonderful. They’re on the same page, they’reworking like a well oiled clock. Its a joy to watch except for that horrible nagging knowledge that there yet another huge lie between them For the record, I know Sam will forgive him but all this waiting is awful.
Thank’s so much Ikeke for the review. I had a feeling Dean/Jensen would be so good in this as his comedic timing is so believable. I’ve read ratings on the forum which didn’t fill me with much glee as their votes were so low. They are known to under rate an episode though. So again I might be pleasantly surprised. When I first read these spoilers I was convinced Dean was turned into a dog, and Sam would get him back to normal. Not that Dean was Dean and imitating dogs, which could to me prove funnier.
I hope to god Sam snaps next week, as that attack should have been a wake up call and forced him to question Dean. I guess he still hasn’t all the prof he needs yet. He’s definitely biding his time by the sounds of it. So I am pleased you all seemed to enjoy it here. 🙂 The forum did say the voice over is a well known american actor, so will look out for him. I also heard the dog was sick in the Impala, oh dear baby!!
Roll on Sunday ………………..
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“Its a joy to watch except for that horrible nagging knowledge that there yet another huge lie between them For the record, I know Sam will forgive him but all this waiting is awful”
I really enjoyed the episode. Im upset though because the tv station kept breaking into the show to announce Mayoral election results, so I think I missed some of the show. I loved the scene with Dean and fetching LOL Jensen really carried it off without it seeming ridiculous.
The elephant in the room is also making me nervous. I keep yelling at the TV “stop asking Sam if hes OK Dean you’re walking on thin ice!”
I hope the ice does break next week, becuase the writers are really milking this other wise, its getting like soulless Sam did. Its going on too long. I bet we won’t see it before Christmas.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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I think your blog and the responses have summed up everything about these two characters. When I first started watching the show on Netflix in 2012, I was initially a Dean girl. I liked Dean’s forth rightness, the what you see is what you get, bad assness attitude. He loved Sam so much and at first glance, Sam appeared almost aloof. I became a Sam girl during season five because the story line concerning his ultimate sacrifice to atone for freeing Lucifer just touched my heart. Sam was tainted as an infant and when John told Dean that he may have to kill Sam if he turned evil meant that had John lived, John would have killed Sam. I think when Dean told Sam what their father said, Sam became aware that his father would have killed him and I think that knowledge changed his projectory and his purpose. I think that any fan of SPN that hates Sam does not “get” the show. Sam and Dean are very different personality types but are exactly the same in all the important ways. Their love is the stuff of legends; each willing to die for the other; each keeping the other grounded and sane; each being the reason to live each day knowing that they face death each and every day. I love them both but I feel very protective of Sam. I just wish that some of needed dialogue would become part of the script instead creating the angst. I used to be a huge fan of Buffy but I think the writers refused to let the character to grow up. In this aspect, I fear the writers of SPN are keeping the boys in the same angsty loop that they should have resolved after Sam went to hell and especially after his soul was returned. After 10 years of fighting evil side by side, dying and returning to life, and everything in between, if these two brothers do not inherently know that their lives are so intertwined and indivisible then there is no hope. And true fans of the show can and should love each brother for their unique contributions that make up the whole of Sam&Dean Winchester.
SPNForever, I think your more like me. I am bi-bro, but I am so protective of Sam. I guess being an older woman its my mothering instincts that come out. I am also a younger sibling which have sensed for years has something to do with this. I remember for some unknown reason channel hopping and came into the show when I saw Sam use his power in after school special in the school corridor exorcising the demon out of the school girl. I remember thinking WOW how can a human have powers. To this day this fueled my passion for Sam’s journey over Dean’s. I adore Dean how protective he is over Sam, and what he would do to see his little bro is safe, and fighting by his side. They are both entangled in a web together and yes are joined at the hip. Which is what makes “THEM” special. The whole John story scared the crap out of me when Sam asked if he knew what he meant when Azazel said he had special plans for him, and the other children. And John replied no. I sensed John knew about Sam, but how long had he known about Sam, and what John was prepared to do to Sam if he got out of hand and couldn’t control him. It annoyed the hell out of me how John could put such a burden on Dean at a young age. I can see why Sam wanted out of hunting did he also know something was very wrong within him? I do love this show!!
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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John placed an inappropriate amount of responsibility on Dean when he was just a baby himself and continued to do so while he was on his death bed telling Dean about Sam. That episode in season 3 where Dean was facing his inner turmoil about how Sam was loved and Cherished by John while Dean was just a killing tool just broke my heart. I did not watch season 3 in order and did not know about this scene until after I had watched season 7. I think that John messed up his sons so badly that it is a wonder they have any sanity at all. Which brings me back to Sam and Dean are sane because of each other. They survived their brutal childhoods because of each other. They continue to survive their brutal adult-hoods because of each other. How anyone can hate Sam knowing how much he means to Dean is beyond me. But this was a great blog and I appreciate the dialogue.
I think this was where John fell down, he put too much on Dean. But then my thoughts sometimes change about this, and think maybe John didn’t, maybe it was a good thing that it helped Dean care for Sam and made him look out for him probably more. There is something about their up bringing that is so special and unique. John really had a problem with Sam’s abilities and it scared the crap out of him, which is why I think he put that onus on Dean if you can’t save him, then do the other thing. And Dean chose always to save Sam. He never gave up. Your right they are sane because of each other. I don’t get this either when they can see how Dean adores the bones of Sam and does anything he can to protect him. Dean is so loyal, caring and smart regarding Sam and I love him for this. They both have great qualities. Dean wouldn’t be Dean without Sam and vice versa.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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I totally agree with this analysis. I don’t understand the hate that the fans had for Sam. Try to put your feet in his situation and I think would you understand how he feels. I’m not Sam girl or Dean girl because I love the brothers equally. No matter how bad it gets, no matter what happened to them I’ll always love them. I never hate Sam on what he did, coz I think I understand his feelings, or why he has to do whatever he needs to do. I feel sorry for Sam for whatever happened to him all this while. He seems having a ton of trauma like forever in his life. Trauma of losing Jes, his mother, once become demon blood junkie, having been a toy of Lucifer, trauma of loosing Dean to hell, lost his soul and many more.. and now dying but he’s not aware of because Zeke is healing him from the inside.
I understand both their feelings, but when they do something wrong I will call them out for it and think/say hey boys I don’t approve of you doing this, but I can see why you did it. I may not like the decision but I try to understand it. This unfortunately is what some Dean girls are not doing. There are two brothers in this relationship, and sometimes something has to give. Its how they deal with the repercussions afterwards that always impress me. I love Sam becuase even though CRAP happens to him he always tries to do what he thinks is right. It might not always be the right CHOICE like the demon blood, but he gives it up because he chose to, not becuase someone told him too. This is all power to him. No matter what’s been thrown at Sam, I know Dean is there to help him through the bad times as well as the good which drives this show for me.
Can’t the fans out there who hate Sam try to at least once figure out or understand what’s his feeling after gone through so much pain throughout his life. Can they see how much he loves Dean as he willing to sacrifice himself while doing the trials to shut the Hell door’s last season. He don’t even think of himself, he’s wiling to ended the trails if that can save his brother and the whole world! Can you all not feels how broken he is when his brother did not trusted him, or when Dean told Sam that finally he can find trust in other person (referring to Benny) besides Sam??
This just shows us how dependent both boys are on each other. No matter what happens they are on this journey together and take the rough with the smooth every time. Sacrifice was a very special moment in this relationship as it showed us how vulnerable Sam felt around Cas and Benny and allowed us to see how insecure Sam really was. He felt Benny was a threat to his world with Dean, and was so blinkered he hadn’t really thought Benny through until Purgatory when Bobby called him out, and he saw for himself that Benny wasn’t the threat he feared he was. He was a real hunter, even though he was a real monster. Sam finally did beat himself up over Benny and felt bad that he treated him so badly. But did come to terms with it having seen him in action. He came to realize the same as Dean he was a good guy after all. Sam I think is so scared of loosing and people coming in between his relationship with Dean, that he finds it hard to open up. Dean was trying his best to reassure Sam that Benny was on the level, but we know later Sam just had to see Benny’s true colours he was in fact okay!! I think Sam is maturing but is a really slow process, and am proud of him for the journey he’s taking.
Dean also make a mistake and took crappy solution sometimes, but why not hate Dean, why hating Sam so much even after he proof himself ??
Poor Sammy!!
Basically Dean is the popular character, always has been and always will be. I don’t think this will ever change. Being the eldest brother gives him advantages where Sammy doesn’t always have this. Dean is a leader and sadly Sam is a follower. But Sam is beginning to take charge and occasionally takes the lead.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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Hear hear,Rena! This is a beautiful sentiment.
Supernatural Lover: That’s funny. When the show started, I was definitely a Sam girl because I just thought he was pretty. I didn’t look much beyond that either. Somewhere in the third season I strafed to really understand Sam but I started to love Dean. I first saw Dean as a dumb jerk and that’s totally not my type but after a while I really began to appreciate him. And it hurt really bad for me when he died in season three. I was just heartbroken. Now I appreciate them both. They’re both worth the love separately and together.
LOL!! I thought both boys were models and they couldn’t act. How wrong was I …………….
At first I thought Dean was cocky, smart ass who bossed Sam about, but now I see him totally differently. He’s caring, kind and a bad ass hunter who would do anything for Sammy what’s not to love about Dean. I don’t know when I really fell for Dean, but I think when he came back from hell, really moved me to tears, and how he wanted to get back home and find his brother. How he crawled out of the grave, in Lazarus rising I will never forget it.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“Dean also make a mistake and took crappy solution sometimes, but why not hate Dean, why hating Sam so much even after he proof himself ??
Poor Sammy!!”
I don’t think anyone HERE hates Sam. hes not my favorite-I’m a Dean/Jensen girl but I don’t hate Sam I do sometimes feel that it would be nice to have “just” Sam and not an angel, demon blood, possessed Sam. I loved the early Sam. He was so gentle and sweet.
Barb I think so many Dean fans want to see this happen, I said before its long over due. Give the guy a break. I would like to see the coin over turned and have Dean in a wobble and Sam help him out and just be Sam. No mask to hide behind. I don’t really believe they hate Sam. As hate is very strong word. I think Dean fans are disappointed that Sam gets all the big story lines, and Dean is side lined. This has gone on for so long now its hard to really know/understand what bugs fans about Sam. This might change this season, lets see.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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We interrupt these posts to say:
AAAAGGHHHH! Supernatural is on tonite! AAAAAAHHHHH!
We now continue with our regularly scheduled posts.
Love you guys, you keep me going 😉
I so envy you all keep me posted I’m counting on you …..
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“AAAAGGHHHH! Supernatural is on tonite! AAAAAAHHHHH!
We now continue with our regularly scheduled posts.”
LOL cant wait
I’m thinking of you sitting with your hubby cuddled up on that sofa with a class of wine and a bowl of crisps ….. 😉 LOL!!
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“h, Dean was hurt by Sam going to Stanford [or whatever the situation], therefore Sam is a horrible selfish person.”
Hes not selfish he just has better self esteem than Dean and wants more than a life of hunting and his choices reflect that. He makes decisions based on that that may hurt Dean, but hes not being selfish hes trying to be true to himself.
He’s not selfish I so agree. Different things drive these boys, and Stanford was Sam’s ambition. I can see why it looked as though it hurt Dean, but as you said too Sam was living his dream. It was just sad that he had to move well away from the family home to do it. I still don’t know why the boys never made contact over those two or so years, anyone know why?
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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Yes, but more than that, I think it’s pretty strongly suggested that Sam’s hunting abilities were not praised by John. Even Bobby mentions how they’ve always been hard on Sam. I think that academics is something that he was good at and was measured by objective outside individuals. Sam has always seen Dean as a better hunter except when he was on demon blood. He didn’t measure up as a hunter in his own estimation. Academics was something that built his confidence, and at one point he says that he wasn’t leaving the family, he was going to school. It was John who cut off ties. We don’t know that it was Sam’s intention to leave the family forever when he made the decision to go.
So Sam still really has doubts about himself and strong feelings about his hunting ability. I remember Bobby saying this too. I also recall he said himself he felt a better hunter and stronger than Dean when he was soulless. He had more energy. I wonder why they never fleshed that part of the story out, as it makes it look as though Sam was the one in the wrong, and it was all on his shoulders, when it was John who kicked him out, and not really persevered with him. Sam’s looked bad from the jump, just because he wasn’t keen on hunting in his fathers eyes. That’s sad 😦 I guess rebelling from being the good little soldier didn’t do him any favors either.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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Also academics was something that was entirely his own and distinguished him from Dean. He may not have thought of himself as a very good hunter but he was encouraged by various outside individuals to pursue academics because he was good at that. He could be proud of that.
I think plowing his head into books was his escapism. He never cared for hunting, so he was possibly doing this to please Daddy, and Dean. The books enabled him to have ambition and think of something else besides the hunt. This is also why Sam is more book smart I think as its something that fuels his fire.
I also get the impression that Sam is /was terrified of the lifestyle. He walsk into dangerous situations. There has to be a certain amount of fear there all his life. At least until now.
Possibly, he may have run away from hunting going into Stanford as he was scared of the life. Its taken him all these years to get his head around it.
There’s still a part of Sam that worships Dean. That admires Dean greatly. Probably even on some level wishes he were like Dean. At least that’s how it was but now I sense that he has reached a certain amount of peace with himself. There’s a part of him that has always been taken care of and wants to be taken care of by Dean. This fits in nicely with Deans need to care for someone. Plus there’s a lot of stuff that’s just a legacy of having been raised by John.
This is why I love a very Supernatural Christmas that Sam looked up to Dean and held him in high regard and think sometimes above his own father. Cause just cause.’ I’m not sure about being taken care of, as I think that’s why he left Ruby because he felt Dean was suffocating him at times and he wanted to stand on his own two feet. Also when he was sick during the trials he didn’t care for Dean’s pampering, as he shrugs off the blanket from his shoulders in annoyance. So this I think also inches into his own independence. He doesn’t like to be crowded but at the same time doesn’t want to upset Dean. I think at times he wants to feel in control and to occasionally have the power to protect and save Dean, and sometimes Dean doesn’t let him. Dean didn’t want Sam to do the trials and Sam just wanted to show Dean for once he was prepared to put his neck out for him too.
Also just because Sam is happy doesn’t mean its Ezekiel. He may not feel like hes at home but hes surrounded by what he thinks of as home. He’s in Dean’s good graces having been assured his brother loves him. He has cured of the demon blood (which played at least some part in his unhappiness), he has inherited a legacy (the MoL) and feels he could have a future with that and gets to exercise his mind and sate his curiosity. He’s in a good place mentally and emotionally. There are solid reasons to be happy besides Ezekiel being the cause.
Maybe some of us have read the signals wrong? It just seemed as we talked here that he’s smiling a lot more than were used to seeing. But this just seems strange considering he’s only been really happy with himself since the finale, and Zeke being inside him. I’m not saying its all Zeke/or all Sam, but I think there is a mixture in there some where. I’m still not convinced its all Sam. Having someone inside you must change your personality just a tad. So I’m sticking with this notion until I see Sam after Zeke has left the building. He just appears to happy for my liking. When he’s been so serious for so long.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“There are solid reasons to be happy besides Ezekiel being the cause.”
I agree and think its all Sam.
Sorry to disagree this time guys, but I am dubious until Zeke leaves Sam, and I can see the real Sam. I will be inclined to feel he’s happy because I think its still the puppet talking and not Sam.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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“All Hell Break Loose” end of season 2- When Sam finds out that Dean traded his soul for Sam’s life and Dean justifies it with his my job is to keep you safe (I paraphrase), Sam responds with something about don’t you think I would do the same for you. They may not always like what each has chosen to do or the secret that is kept, but the love has been there from forever. It is that love that currently has Dean making choices such as letting Zeke in, sending Cas away, saving Charlie and lying so damn bad to Sam. Love is all you need.
don’t you think I would do the same for you. I loved this line from Sam, which always sticks in the back of my mind, until season 8 exploded it. But am understanding Sam’s actions way more now than what I did. This is why in some respects the angst is a clever part of writing their story as it adds dimension to it. It needs a reaction to help the story gather momentum and like all married couples they row, and make up. Its human nature. Its another line of Dean’s I loved in season 5 ‘Its more than that we keep each other human’. These writers really know how to get at our heart strings. They really are tough choices, and Carver had it right about Dean’s guilt what a tough year it will be for him. I do hope to god Sam is okay with it, and doesn’t give Dean a hard time, Dean did his best I think Sam would have done the same if he were in his shoes!’ I do love these boys, Love is all you need.’
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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I agree, and I really hate the common phrase that goes around the fandom about their “unhealthy co-dependence.” It’s their connection that has kept them alive and saved the world. They are soul mates. It is love — the epic love story of Sam and Dean.
I’ve never got this either. I get their soul mates, and is a nice tern of phrase to use.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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If you’re going to classify one or the other of them as selfish then Dean could be considered selfish too. He won’t allow Sam to go because he’s selfish and needs Sam.
Dean cannot live on his own without Sam, we’ve seen this a few times now making deals to bring Sam back. They both need each other. I don’t think either could function without the other as they have become dependent I know I said the word, but its true.
But you know what? Yes, Dean is selfish but these must be people who do not understand how love works. There is an element of loving someone that is entirely about one’s own feelings. That’s just how it works and there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s how love is supposed to work.
It would be wired if it were all one-sided. Love is about being compatible and understanding the other persons feelings as well as your own. But relationships have worked were couples live apart from one another where the other does their own thing. But in the boys case there maturing and occasionally something will happen where one does something the other doesn’t like. That it hurts the other person deeply, how they get around it is what counts, and how they work it out.
I often wonder about the people who come up with such judgments. Do they not have siblings? Do they not love the people in their life? Do they have healthy relationships to the point where they can see love in other people? I just wonder because some of the judgments that get made against Sam make no sense to me at all.
I think it depends what generation you come from. Some families are all lovey dovey, I’m not use to this I don’t know what a hug is really, as my family isn’t like that. It doesn’t mean we don’t have feelings and know how to express ourselves, its just our way. Many people live on their own, so their feelings would be different. But generally I try and see both sides of the coin, and see where either of the brothers are coming from. I also see a very male family life with little female interaction, which is sad. I still wonder how different the boys would be if they new their mum more. I think Sam missed out on this and it shows.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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I agree with all your analysis and all your points here — all the times that Sam has protected or save his brother. You’re absolutely right that Sam is not as popular as Dean is. It’s unclear to me why that is. I love both of the boys, They both have their strengths and their faults. Those personality traits have served them well in balancing each other out over the years but particularly in the first five seasons. Since then the writers have become guilty of what a friend of mine calls “Sam abuse” — the tendency to compromise Sam in some way whether by making him soulless or emotionally/mentally (broken wall, Hallucifer) weak or sick as we saw with the trials. His judgment is constantly called into question and Dean comes out as “right.” That has put Dean in the “caretaker” role repeatedly and made Sam seem like a burden to Dean. It seems like lazy writing to me that gets the narrative stuck in a rut.
Thank you, most of it was copied from IMDb who found it on Tumblr but I fell in love with the piece and had to share it here. I still wonder why Dean is more popular and is a puzzle to me too. I too love them both, and well said about their traits. I hear the word ‘Sam Abuse’ and do get this. The boy deserves a break now, and think this is long over due. It is as I’ve said countless times before a wonder he is still standing and alive, and in one piece. Even Dean has had his fair share of troubles. I get Dean’s caretaker role I always have, but I think sometimes the scales are not balanced. If Dean once in a while had health problems like Faith, where Sam clearly showed us he had balls to rescue Dean I think would put Sam in a more even position. I think when its all on one brothers shoulders its a hell of a lot of guilt for Dean to carry too and make sure Sam is safe. I often think who’s Dean really got to turn to now since Bobbies gone. He’s taken all this on himself this season and is a hell of a worry for anyone. So I wouldn’t want to be in Dean’s shoes right now. I just hope the secret is handled right and not one where the angst goes through the roof. I think if they swapped the roles about a bit more, and cut Sam some slack regarding his health issues it might settle down more.
What I don’t understand are the fans who see Sam as selfish. I’ve heard it a thousand times and as your analysis makes clear, it’s just not true. They have to be willfully blind to see Sam’s actions or not very bright to see him as selfish, but I think there are those who A. think they have to take sides as though the boys aren’t a team, B. see Sam as an obstacle to their ship becoming canon, C. only comprehend the thinnest surface reading of the show. Those in the last group only see “oh, Dean was hurt by Sam going to Stanford [or whatever the situation], therefore Sam is a horrible selfish person.” They don’t try to see Sam’s side, and since Sam is less emotive and we don’t get his POV as much, they just “feel” for Dean.
I think they are polarized and have tunnel vision, they can’t see past it, or don’t want to see past it. Sam is far from selfish and always thought selfish sounds a horrible word. He doesn’t always think of himself, he has always tried to look up to Dean, and tried to please Dean. John was Dean’s idol, I think Dean is Sam’s. He really looks up to Dean, and tries to do his best. Cas is also similar and both often seek Dean’s approval. Your right about the obstacle and did think about this a lot. Its like Sam gets in the way if they ship Dean/Cas. Its almost like Sam doesn’t belong in their heads. They can’t deal with it. Sam is far from selfish this text is a testament to Sam that he has gone that extra mile, and he has lived up to Dean’s expectation of him. Dean told us this in the finale. They still don’t get it that’s their hard cheese. 😉
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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Find myself always liking both characters portrayed. Can’t separate one from the other even when there is a separate story about each. SPN is after all about the brothers not one or the other at this point.
I still can’t get why some don’t enjoy both brothers equally. I’m not keen on the term bi-bro, but I’m proud that I adore them both.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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Right, exactly.
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Yes!This! This exactly!
Thank you Patchouli, you summed this up very nicely. I couldn’t have said it any better.
And Bella: I love this post. It’s posts like this that just remind me how much and why I love this show. 😀
Your welcome, I loved it too you should have seen me this morning when I read it, you should also read the replies now, there still having a dig. I just don’t get it. It was so beautifully put it really did move me. I don’t say things like this very often. Seeing someone else on Sam’s wavelength and proving a point, it took balls to post that thread.
Thanks for the comments,
Love Aunty B xxx
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